February 21, 2023

>>> HHELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

ONE YEAR ON, ONE WAR BUT TWO VERY DIFFERENT SPEECHES FROM PRESIDENT'S BIDEN AND PUTIN AS EASTERN EUROPE TAKES THE SPOTLIGHT.

MY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH THE PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC.

>>> THEN.

>> THE WAR IN UKRAINE IS NOT ONLY AN ISSUE FOR EUROPE.

IT'S AN ISSUE FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.

>> MY CONVERSATION WITH URSHELA AND THE FINISHED PRIME MINISTER.

THEY TELL ME ABOUT MAINTAINING SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE, GETTING THE GLOBAL SOUTH ON BOARD AND ABOUT GENDER.

>>> ALSO AHEAD.

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>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR LIVE IN POLAND.

WELCOMING THE ARRIVAL OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

MARKING ONE YEAR SINCE RUSSIA'S FULL SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

THE U.S. LEADER PITTED THE WAR IN UKRAINE AS THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY AGAINST DICTATORSHIP.

TAKE A LISTEN TO HIS SPEECH.

>> HE THOUGHT AUTOCRATS LIKE HIMSELF WERE TOUGH AND LEADERS OF DEMOCRACY WERE SOFT AND THEN HE MET THE IRON WILL OF AMERICA AND HAD FEAR AND FORCE.

HE FOUND HIMSELF AT WAR WITH A NATION LED BY A MAN WHOSE COURAGE WOULD BE FORGED IN FIRE AND STEEL, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

PRESIDENT PUTIN, PRESIDENT PUTIN IS CONFRONTED WITH SOMETHING TODAY THAT YOU DIDN'T THINK WAS ABLE BUT THE WORLD IS GROWING STRONGER, NOT WEAKER BUT THE AUTOCRATS OF THE WORLD WITH WEAKER NOT STRONGER BECAUSE OF UPHEAVAL KNOWING WHAT YOU STAND FOR IS IMPORTANT AND KNOWING WHO STANDS WITH YOU MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

>> IN MOSCOW, OF COURSE, THERE WAS A DIFFERENT VISION.

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN USING HIS STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS TO PAINT RUSSIA AS THE VICTIM OF A WAR THE WEST STARTED.

>> THE ELITE OF THE WEST DO NOT CONCEAL AMBITION TO STRATEGICALLY DEFEAT RUSSIA, FINISH US OFF ONCE AND FOR ALL.

LET ME SAY THEY UNLEASHED THIS WAR AND WE USED FORCE TO STOP THEM.

>> MEANWHILE AT NATO, THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT CHINA'S INTENTIONS AS YE LANDS IN MOSCOW FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE RUSSIA'S INVASION BUT RIGHT NOW, ALL EYES ARE HERE ON EASTERN EUROPE THAT SOARED OVER THE IMPORTANCE OF THE WAR PROVIDING SUPPORT TO UKRAINIAN FIGHTERS AND SANCTUARY TO REFUGEES.

TOMORROW PRESIDENT BIDEN MEETS WITH THE SO-CALLED BOOKER NINE A GROUP MADE UP OF FORMER SOVIET REPUBLICS FOR WHOM THIS WAR TRIGGERS PAINFUL MEMORIES.

AMONG THEM IS THE CZECH REPUBLIC AND MY NEXT GUEST IS THE COUNTRY'S PRESIDENT ELECT WHO JOINS ME NOW FOR AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

OF COURSE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FORMER WARSAW PACT NATIONS.

I WONDER WHAT YOU MADE TODAY OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ROBUST SPEECH RIGHT HERE IN DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY.

DID HE SAY WHAT YOU'RE EXPECTING?

>> WELL, CHRISTIANE, I BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S VISIT FIRST TO KYIV AND NOW TO WAR SHAW IS A STRONG SIGNAL TO RUSSIA AND ALL EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL SUPPORT UKRAINE, WILL SUPPORT OUR COMMON PRINCIPLES AND WILL STAND BY EUROPEAN ALLIES.

>> SO THEN LET ME ASK YOU TO RESPOND TO PRESIDENT PUTIN.

YOU HEARD AND SAW HIS ADDRESS TO THE NATION IN WHICH HE TURNED ESSENTIALLY THE STORY FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE AND SAID THE WEST STARTED THIS AGAINST US AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD TO USE FORCE.

ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, FINDING FOOTING IN NOT ONLY RUSSIA BUT IN MANY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

>> I THINK IT'S QUITE AN EXAMPLE OF RUSSIAN BEHAVIOR ESPECIALLY PRESIDENT PUTIN'S BEHAVIOR AND HIS FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV IN RECENT YEARS WHERE THEIR ARGUMENTS ARE MISSING OURS AT DIFFERENT FLIGHT LEVELS.

THEY ARE USING NARRATIVES THAT ARE VERY MUCH DIFFERENT FROM REALITY.

THEY ARE CONCEALING THE FACTS OF THE FEED OF THEIR POPULATION WITH PROPAGANDA.

THEY DISTORT REALITY AND THAT'S WHY IT SO DIFFICULT TO TALK TO THEM ON ANY ISSUES TODAY.

>> MR. PRESIDENT ELECT, YOU HAVE BEEN A FORMER NATO COMMANDER IN THE HEAD QUARTERS AND I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU MAKE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA, ONE YEAR ON ESSENTIALLY ADMITTING THAT HIS ARMY NEEDS SOME HELP.

LET ME PLAY THE SPEECH THAT SAYS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGES IN THE RUSSIAN MILITARY.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> Translator: MUST BECOME A PRIORITY TO PROMOTE OFFICERS AND SERGEANTS PROVING THEMSELVES TO BE PROFESSIONAL, UP TO DATE AND DETERMINED COMMANDERS AND THEY ARE MANY AND TO SECOND THEM TO SENIOR MILITARY ACADEMIES SO THAT THEY WILL FORM A HIGHLY CAPABLE STAFF POOL FOR THE ARMED FORCES.

>> SO HE SEEMED TO BE ADMITTING THEY WERE NOT HIGHLY CAPABLE AND THEY NEEDED HELP.

FROM YOUR PROSPECTIVE AS A MILITARY MAN, WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE RUSSIAN MILITARY RIGHT NOW PARTICULARLY AS IT'S PERFORMING IN BAKMUT AND THE EAST?

>> IT'S A GREAT UNDER PERFORMANCE BY RUSSIAN MILITARY IN ALL TERMS, OTHER TACTICS, IN STRATEGIES AND THEIR EQUIPMENT AND THEIR LOGISTICS COMMAND AND CONTROL.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FATAL MISTAKES THE RUSSIAN MILITARY MADE OVER LAST YEAR.

SO OBVIOUSLY, VERY GOOD FOR UKRAINE BUT WE SHOULDN'T UNDER ESTIMATE RUSSIAN CAPABILITY TO LEARN THE LESSONS.

THEY DID IT IN THE LAST SEVERAL TIMES AND WE SHOULD SEE THEY ARE NOW AND WILL IMPROVE TRAINING OF STAFF AND ABLE TO IMPROVE TRAINING OF JUNIOR OFFICERS AND ABLE TO IMPROVE TACTICS BASED ON THE TACTICS USED BY UKRAINIANS AND ADVISED BY ALL NATO COUNTRIES SO THEY CAN LEARN AND WE SHOULDN'T UNDER ESTIMATE THAT.

>> OF COURSE, AS EVERYBODY TOLD ME, THEY HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE IN QUANTITY AND SEEM TO BE DONE SCRIPTING AND SENDING ACROSS IN HUMAN WAVES.

I WANT TO ASK YOU MR. PRESIDENT ELECT ABOUT THE SOARING IMPORTANCE OF EASTERN EUROPE.

IT'S SUDDENLY COME INTO IT'S OWN IN THE WORLD WAR AND OBVIOUSLY THROUGHOUT THE DOMINATION BY THE SOVIET UNION.

HOW DO YOU SEE WHERE YOUR REGION IS RIGHT NOW?

EASTERN AND CENTRAL EUROPE IN THIS WHOLE NATO ALLIANCE IN THIS NATO EFFORT FOR UKRAINE?

>> ALL WARSAW PACKED COUNTRIES WHO MADE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE WITH SOVIET UNION AND NOW RUSSIA ARE VERY CLEAR WHAT RUSSIA IS CAPABLE OF.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE RUSSIA IS HEADING AND POSSIBILITY OF NEGOTIATION WITH RUSSIA.

WE ALL KNOW THAT RUSSIA UNDERSTANDS POWER.

FOR US, POWER BECOMES -- COMES FROM UNITY.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE VERY CLEAR IN THE UNITED APPROACH OF ALL E.U.

AND NATION COUNTRIES AGAINST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION SO THEY'RE DRIVEN OFF UKRAINIAN TERRITORY AND UKRAINIAN SOVEREIGNTY.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY AND CENTRAL AND EUROPE COUNTRY KS PLAY A ROLE BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL IN THE THIRST GROUP ASSISTING UKRAINE WITH WEAPONS INCLUDING HEAVY WEAPONS WITH AMMUNITION AND FINANCIAL SUPPORT ACCOMMODATING NUMBER OF REFUGEES FROM UKRAINE.

THIS IS WHAT WE DO BECAUSE IT'S -- WE SEE IT AS A NECESSITY.

>> SO DO YOU -- BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE EXPERIENCE, HUNGRY THAN CZECHOSLOVAKIA WERE OVER RUN BY THE SOVIET UNION AND THEIR FREEDOM MOVEMENTS WERE CRUSHED IN THE '50s.

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU GET THIS DANGER MORE THAN THE WEST OR FURTHER WEST AND DO YOU THINK THERE ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE A LOT MORE HEAVY WEAPONRY SUPPLIED FOR INSTANCE AIRCRAFT?

THIS IS THE BIG CONUNDRUM RIGHT NOW.

>> WE UNDERSTAND IN THIS PART OF EUROPE HOW RUSSIA HAS TO BE DEFEATED BECAUSE THEY REALLY UNDERSTAND THE POWER.

THAT'S WHY WE SUPPORT UKRAINE IN PROVIDING ALL NECESSARY EQUIPMENT HOWEVER WITH THE AIRCRAFT IT MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT'S MUCH EASIER TO TRAIN CREWS FOR TANKS AND ARTILLERY.

IT'S MORE COMPLICATED WITH THE AIR FORCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PILOTS, IT'S ABOUT ALL LAND CREWS, ALL THE SUPPORT OF THE AIR FIELD, AMMUNITION.

IT TAKES AT MINIMUM HALF A YEAR AND OF COURSE, TIME IS A CRITICAL FACTOR NOW FOR UKRAINE.

SO WE SHOULD PROVIDE UKRAINE AT THIS MOMENT MAINLY HEAVY EQUIPMENT, TANKS, LONG-RANGE MISSILES AND AIR DEFENSE.

THESE ARE CRUCIAL ASSETS FOR UKRAINE TOPPLED WITH AMMUNITION.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE WORRIES OF NATO ABOUT CHINA'S INTENTIONS.

YOU PROBABLY SAW THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE THE HIGHEST, YOU KNOW, DIPLOMAT THERE, FOREIGN MINISTER TALKED ABOUT A PEACE PLAN THAT THE CHINESE WOULD BRING APPARENTLY NOT HAVING INCLUDED THE UKRAINIANS THAT MIGHT TALK ABOUT A SEIZE FIRE NOW.

FIRST AND FOR MOST, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THAT.

HAS THAT GOT LEGS GIVEN THAT WOULD FREEZE IN PLACE THE CURRENT LINES?

>> I'M PERSONALLY VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT ANY CHINESE PROPOSAL WITH REGARD TO UKRAINE BECAUSE SHOULD CHINA REALLY WANTED TO CHANGE THINGS, THEY HAD A CHANCE SEVERAL TIMES FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CONFLICT.

WHAT IS CLEAR, CHINA IS WATCHING VERY CAREFULLY WHAT IS GOING ON IN RUSSIA.

CHINA IS MONITORING ALL OUR REACTIONS AT UNITY OF THE WEST EFFECTIVENESS OF OUR MEASURES BECAUSE THEY'RE LEARNING LESSONS OF ANY POTENTIAL CONFRONTATION BETWEEN CHINA AND THE WEST AND ESPECIALLY UNITED STATES.

>> AND YOU BROKE WITH QUITE A LONG STANDING TRADITION AFTER YOUR ELECTION, YOU HAD A CALL WITH YOUR TAIJUAN COUNTERPART.

WHY DID YOU THINK IT WAS IMPORTANT TO TAKE THAT CALL AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AT THIS TIME?

>> FIRST, TAIJUAN PRESIDENT OFFERED WELCOME TO OUR ELECTIONS RESULT.

THEY WANTED TO CONGRATULATE ME SO I TOOK IT AS A MATTER OF COURTESY TO RESPOND AND SECOND, TAIJUAN IS OUR IMPORTANT ECONOMIC PARTNER.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF JOINT VENTURES.

QUITE SIGNIFICANT EXCHANGE OF GOODS, COOPERATION IN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND THAT'S REALITY SO I DON'T SEE PROBLEMS WITH CONFLICTS WITH TAIJUAN AND DISREGARDING THE PRINCIPLE OF JUNE CHINA, TWO SYSTEMS.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED CHINA HEIGHT START SUPPLYING ARMS TO RUSSIA'S EFFORT?

APPARENTLY, THE U.S. SAYS THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IT'S DONE SO BUT TRYING TO TELL THEM THIS WOULD BE A VERY, VERY BAD IDEA.

>> >> MY PERSONAL VIEW IS CHINA HAS NO REAL INTEREST IN DEFEAT OF RUSSIA.

THEY NEED RUSSIA NOT TOO STRONG BUT NOT TOO COLLAPSED BECAUSE RUSSIA WILL BE AN ALLY AGAINST THE WEST.

I BELIEVE THERE MIGHT BE SOME KIND OF SUPPORT FROM CHINA TO RUSSIA.

>> AND NOT ALL EUROPEAN NATIONS ARE ON BOARD.

RIGHT NEARBY WHERE YOU ARE THERE IS HUNGRY.

THEY SENT MISSILES TO UKRAINE AND IT DIDN'T COME TO THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE.

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT HUNGARY?

>> FOREIGN MINISTER EXPRESSED PRORUSSIAN VIEWS FREQUENTLY.

THERE ARE FACTS SUPPORTING THIS APPROACH MAINLY NUCLEAR ENERGY BECAUSE RUSSIA IS CONTRACTOR TO HUNGARY NUCLEAR POWER PLANT AND IT'S FINANCED OUT OF 80% BY RUSSIA AND OF COURSE, HUNGRY WANTS THIS POWER PLANT TO BE FINALIZED.

THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES THAT WORK FOR HUNGRY AND THAT'S TO TAKE DISTANCE FROM OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AND BE VERY INDEPENDENT IN POSITIONS THAT BRINGS THEM CLOSER NOT ONLY TO RUSSIA BUT ALSO TO CHINA.

>> YOU ARE PRESIDENT ELECT.

YOU HAVE THE CHALLENGE OF LEADING YOUR COUNTRY FORWARD IN THIS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TIME BUT YOU'RE ALSO A FORMER GENERAL AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU SEE THE BATTLE FIELD IN UKRAINE OVER THE NEXT WEEKS AND MONTHS.

>> AS ALL ALLIES AND PARTNERS, WE ALSO PUT UKRAINE IN A VERY FINAL VECTORRY AND THAT VICTORY WOULD BE IN COMPLETE RUSSIAN CONTROL AND RESTORATION OF UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

HOWEVER, I WOULDN'T BE TOO OPTIMISTIC THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN IN A COUPLE WEEKS OR MONTHS.

WE SHOULDN'T REALLY UNDER ESTIMATE PROVIDING LARGE NUMBER OF EQUIPMENT EVEN THOUGH A LITTLE OBSOLETE AND AS FAR AS PERSONNEL, RUSSIA MAY MAINTAIN THIS CONFLICT FOR A LONG TIME WHICH WOULD OBVIOUSLY MAKE IT VERY MUCH DIFFICULT FOR UKRAINE AND WESTERN PARTNERS TO SUSTAIN THE LEVEL OF OPERATIONS IN UKRAINE.

HOWEVER, WE AIM AT BRINGING UKRAINE TO VICTORY.

>> PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING ME ON THIS REALLY IMPORTANT DAY AND EVERYBODY OF THE NINE WILL BE MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN TOMORROW.

YOU WILL NOT BE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT YET IN OFFICE BUT ALL YOUR COUNTRIES WILL BE INVOLVED IN THAT BY LATERAL SESSION WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

FROM WHERE I AM IN WARSAW, EVERYONE IS COMMITTED TO STANDING BY UNTIL THE WAR IS WON BUT OUTSIDE POLAND AND NATO IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT STORY.

MUCH OF THE GLOBAL SOUTH SO-CALLED BELIEVES MUCH OF MOSCOW'S NARRATIVE.

OVER THE WEEKEND AT THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE, WESTERN LEADERS SPOKE ABOUT HOW TO CHANGE THIS DYNAMIC AND I TALKED WITH THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT URSHELA AND ALSO THE FINISHED PRIME MINISTER ABOUT THIS.

>> IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THIS RUSSIAN WAR IS.

IT IS ABOUT PUTIN'S IMPERIL PLANS AND THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE ALL OF US AND MAINLY THE GLOBAL SOUTH HAVE A VERY CLEAR IDEA IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE AND COUNTRIES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MEDITERRANEAN HAVE A BITTER AND LONG STANDING EXPERIENCE.

FIRST YOU SEND THE NEGOTIATORS IN THEN YOU SEND -- THEY SEE EXPERTS ARE SENT IN AND MERCENARIES ARE SENT IN.

WE WILL NEVER EVER ACCEPT THIS WAR.

WE WILL NEVER EVER ACCEPT THAT PUTIN IS TRAMPLING ON THE INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT PROTECTS ALL OF US THAT A U.N. CHARTER ALSO DANGEROUS IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IS BEING TREATED SO DISRESPECTFUL AND WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT THAT TODAY YOU CAN SEND TANKS JUST ACROSS THE BORDER TO INVADE A COUNTRY.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH MY EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS NEEDS A LOT OF JUST HARD WORK TO WORK TOGETHER WITH AS YOU SAID THE GLOBAL SOUTH TO MAKE UNDERSTOOD OUR POINT OF VIEW BUT ALSO TO WORK WITH THEM ON DEALING WITH THE EFFECT OF THIS WAR.

THIS IS THE FOOD AND ENERGY CRISIS AND WE DO AT MOST TO DEAL WITH THE EFFECTS IN A WAY THAT THE GLOBAL SOUTH DOES NOT SUFFER TOO MUCH FROM PUTIN'S WAR OF AGGRESSION.

IT'S HARD WORK BUT ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT.

>> PRIME MINISTER, SOMEBODY THAT'S CALLED A HERO AROUND THE WORLD ALSO DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE INTERVENTION THAT YOU-ALL YOU DESCRIBE THE ILLEGAL INVASION OF ONE COUNTRY BY A BIGGER COUNTRY.

AS THE COMMISSIONER SAYS, WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT THIS.

WE UNDERSTAND THE HISTORIC ISSUES.

HOW DO YOU SEE TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHERS OF THE JUSTNESS OF YOUR CAUSE?

>> THE WAR IN UKRAINE IS NOT JUST AN ISSUE FOR EUROPE.

THERE IS A WAR OF VALUES GOING ON.

AUTHORITARIAN COUNTRIES ARE RAISING THEIR HEADS.

THEY ARE RAISING THEIR HEADS AGAINST THE INTERNATIONAL RULE BASED ORDER AND THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR EVERYONE.

WHEN RUSSIA ATTACKED UKRAINE, IT VIOLATED THE RULES AND AGREEMENTS COMMITTED TO BEFORE AND THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR EVERYONE BECAUSE THEN WE WILL ONLY SEE DECADES OF THIS BEHAVIOR IF UKRAINE DOESN'T WIN THE WAR AND IF WE DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR VALUES AND THE INTERNATIONAL LAW BASED ORDER.

THIS IS A LARGER ISSUE THAN JUST ISSUE FOR EUROPE AND UKRAINE AND WE HAVE TO DO AT MOST TO MAKE SURE UKRAINE WIN AND THAT WE WILL PRESERVE THIS SYSTEM OF RULES WE HAVE CREATED TOGETHER AND THERE WAS REASON WHY THIS WAS CREATED THE WARS BEFORE, WARS THAT WE HAVE SEEN AND IT WAS DEVASTATING.

THAT'S WHY WE BUILT SYSTEM WHERE WE CAN NEGOTIATE WHERE WE CAN BUILD PEACE, NOT USE VIOLENCE AGAINST EACH OTHER, WARS ATTACK ANOTHER COUNTRY TO MAKE A STAND OR GAIN SOMETHING.

>> YOU REMEMBER WELL THERE WAS WARNINGS BY THE UNITED STATES AND THE U.K., THAT PUTIN WAS PLANNING AN INVASION.

YOUR COUNTRY, GERMANY, OTHERS INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE WHO WAS SITTING HERE DID NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THAT THAT WAS A REALITY AND TRYING TO SAY NO.

YOU USED UKRAINE AS A CORNER STONE AND TALKED ABOUT THE YOUNGER DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD.

DO YOU BELIEVE THIS UNITY AND STEADFASTNESS IN THE INTERIM YEAR WILL CONTINUE?

CAN YOU KEEP ALL YOUR FRACTURED MEMBERS ON BOARD AND PEOPLE 500 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE BLACK?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'M TODAY MORE CONVINCED THAN A YEAR AGO.

BUT TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT INDEED OUR AMERICAN FRIENDS WAY MORE THAN A YEAR AGO STARTED TO DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED THAT THEY TOOK THEIR INTELLIGENCE AND WHAT KNOWLEDGE AND PUT IT ON THE PUBLIC MARKET, THIS GAVE US AN ANNER -- AN EARLY WARNING AND WORKED WITH THE WHITE HOUSE AND TREASURY IN DECEMBER ON POTENTIAL SANCTIONS IN CASE THAT RUSSIA WOULD INVAD VAD UKRAINE.

WE HOPED WE NEVER NEEDED THE SANCTIONS BUT A TEDIOUS WORKDAY AND NIGHT TO ALIGN THE DIFFERENT TRADE SYSTEMS AND DEVELOP SANCTIONS THAT ARE TARGETED AT ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES AND GOODS THAT ARE IRREPLACEABLE FOR RUSSIA AND TO BE COMPLETELY SYNCHRONIZED ALSO WITHIN THE G 7.

THIS MADE IT POSSIBLE THAT ON DAY GO, DAY FOUR, DAY TEN OF THE INVASION WE WERE ABLE TO PUT ON THE TABLE VERY HEAVY SANCTION PACKAGES SO THE EARLY WARNING THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS HELPFUL AND WORK BEING DONE WITH WHICH WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE AND TOUCHING FOR ME IS THE FACT EUROPEANS AND I WOULD SAY DEMOCRACIES, PARTNERS, HAVE IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS SERIOUS AND GOING TO THE CORE OF OUR EXISTENCE.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE MANY ISSUES THAT WE DISCUSS.

BUT HERE, FROM DAY ONE ON, WE WERE STANDING AS ONE WE WERE UNITED.

WE ARE UNITED.

IF YOU LOOK BACK THROUGH THE CRISIS, INCLUDING ENERGY CRISIS AND MASTERED IT, TODAY I CAN SAY I'M DEEPLY CONVINCE THAT WE WILL KEEP THE UNITY AND WE WILL KEEP THE DETERMINATION BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT OUR VALUES AND OUR VERY EXISTENCE WE'RE FIGHTING FOR.

>> LOOKING BACK THREE STEPS FIRST WHEN THE WAR STARTED, WE WERE PREPARED AND THE COMMISSION WAS PREPARED MAKING THE SANCTIONS TOGETHER WITH ALL OUR ALLIES AND WE WERE VERY PROUD OF PUTTING SANCTIONS ON PLACE SO WE WERE PREPARED ON THAT STAGE THAT WAY BUT LOOKING BACK, NOW, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT RUSSIA WILL ATTACK.

WE DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

WE TRIED EVERYTHING WE COULD TO MAKE DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION AND THAT WAS OF COURSE THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

TRYING TO MAKE DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION BUT LOOKING BACK, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT RUSSIA WILL ATTACK UKRAINE.

THEY ALREADY USED THE ENERGY LEVERAGE DURING THAT SUMMER, DURING THAT ALL THE TOM.

THEY ALREADY USED THE ENERGY REV -- LEVERAGE.

THERE WAS DIFFERENT DISRUPTION OF THE ENERGY FLOWS DURING THAT YEAR OF 2021.

BACKING BACK NOW THEY WERE PLANNING THIS BIG ATTACK AGAINST UKRAINE AND THEN LOOKING WAY BACK TO 2014, WHEN THE CRIMEA WAS INVADED, WE MADE BIG MISTAKE THEN.

WE MAKE A BIG MISTAKE THEN TOGETHER NOT TO REACT MORE STRONGLY.

IF WE HAD ACTED AND REACTED MORE STRONGLY TOWARDS THE CRIMEA, THEN THE WAR WOULDN'T HAPPEN.

I THINK RUSSIA THOUGHT IT WOULD BE LIKE CRIMEA, JUST ENTERING UKRAINE, UKRAINE WOULD GIVE THEM OPEN WELCOME.

IT WOULD LAST ONLY FOR A FEW WEEKS AND PUTIN WOULD WIN VERY QUICKLY AND EASILY THE WAR BECAUSE WE DIDN'T REACT 2014 AND NOW WE HAVE TO LEARN SOME LESSONS ON THE CURRENT SITUATION AND THE MAIN LESSON IS NOT TO BE NAIVE.

WE CANNOT BE NAIVE.

I LISTENED TO THE PREVIOUS PANEL AND I WANT THE WORLD WHICH IS BEAUTIFUL AND GOOD AND SECURE AND WE DON'T HAVE TO PUT MONEY TO OUR MILITARY FORCES TO OUR DEFENSE FORCES.

I ALSO WANT THAT WORLD BUT THAT WORLD ISN'T A REALITY.

THE ONLY WAY TO SECURE PEACE, THE ONLY WAY TO SECURE THE INTERNATIONAL RULE BASED ORDER IS MAKE SURE EUROPE AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES ARE STRONG, THAT WE ARE INVESTING IN OUR DEFENSE CAPABILITIES THAT WE HAVE THAT LEVERAGE AND THAT WE HAVE ALSO THAT THREAT PRESENT THAT THESE AUTHORITARIAN COUNTRIES RUSSIA IS EXAMPLE THEY DON'T USE FORCE BECAUSE THEY ARE ALSO, THEY HAVE TO THINK TO USE IT -- >> WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES WINNING LOOK LIKE TO YOU-ALL?

YOU SAID STRONGLY WHAT YOU SAID PRIME MINISTER.

WHAT DOES WINNING LOOK LIKE AND IN FOR A PENNY, IN FOR A POUND, SURELY.

SURELY YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE VERY END GIVING ALL THE SUPPORT THAT UKRAINE NEEDS TO FIGHT THIS WAR FOR THEM AND FOR YOU.

IS THERE -- ARE YOU WORRIED -- AMMUNITION PRODUCTION IS NOT UP AND RUNNING LIKE IT SHOULD.

THERE IS SOME SLOWNESS, LET'S SAY, IN GET -- BETWEEN REQUESTING WEAPONS.

I KNOW YOU'VE DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN OFFENSIVE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WAR THAT YESTERDAY CHANCELLOR SCHULTZ SAID COULD GO ON FOR YEARS WHILE ZELENSKYY THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WANTS IT ENDED THIS YEAR.

DON'T YOU HAVE TO DOUBLE, REDOUBLE, TRIPLE DOWN ON YOUR EFFORTS TO END THIS IN A VICTORY?

WHAT DOES A VICTORY LOOK LIKE?

NOBODY DEFINED IT.

>> WE HAVE TO DOUBLE DOWN AND WE HAVE TO CONTINUE THE REALLY MASSIVE SUPPORT THAT IS NECESSARY THAT THIS PUTIN WILL FAIL AND CONCERNED INDEED.

I THINK IT'S NOW THE TIME REALLY TO SPEED UP THE PRODUCTION AND SCALE UP THE PRODUCTION OF STANDARDIZED PRODUCTS THAT UKRAINE NEEDS DESPERATELY FOR EXAMPLE THE STANDARDIZED AMMUNITION.

IT CANNOT BE WE HAVE TO WAIT MONTHS AND YEARS UNTIL WE'RE ABLE TO REPLENISH OR DELIVER THAT TO UKRAINE.

I THOUGHT WE TAKE THE EUROPEAN PEACE FACILITY AND IN PLACE AND FUND MEMBER STATES GIVE MILITARY EQUIPMENT TO UKRAINE AND SO IT'S AN ESTABLISHED BODY AND HAS A MECHANISM WITH UKRAINE AND WE CONVENE THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY OF EUROPE AND WE VERY CLEARLY ASK THEM WHAT IS IT WHAT YOU NEED TO SCALE UP AND TO SPEED UP, STAND STANDERIZED PRODUCT.

NOT THE HIGHLY COMPLEX OF SPECIFIC THINGS BUT THE STANDARDIZED PRODUCTS LIKE 155 MILLIMETERS OF ARTILLERY.

WE NEED NOW TO DO THE SAME AS WE'VE DONE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

TWO WE SAID LOOK AT THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, WHAT IS IT WHAT YOU NEED TO SCALE UP?

WE COULD THINK OF FOR EXAMPLE ADVANCED PURCHASE AGREEMENTS THAT GIVES THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY THE POSSIBILITY TO INVEST IN PRODUCTION LINES NOW TO BE FASTER AND TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT THEY CAN DELIVER AND THEREFORE, IT IS FOR US PARAMOUNT TO SUPPORT UKRAINE IN THESE THINGS.

I THINK A SECOND ELEMENT TO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE IS THE ECONOMIC INDUSTRY OF UKRAINE.

UKRAINE NEEDS TO SURVIVE ECONOMICALLY AND THERE IT'S GOOD THAT WE HAVE DECIDED TO HAVE A REGULARLY BUDGET SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE $1.5 BILLION PER MONTH BY THE EUROPEAN UNION.

OUR AMERICAN FRIENDS ARE MATCHING THAT AND THE INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL SHOULD DO THAT.

IT'S TIME TO STEP UP BECAUSE UKRAINE REALLY NEEDS THE MATERIAL TO SURVIVE.

>> I NEED TO ASK YOU BOTH A QUESTION ABOUT THE 50%.

THIS CONFERENCE IS MEANT TO BE 50% WOMEN.

MAYBE IT IS.

MAYBE IT ISN'T.

YOU MIGHT HAVE JUST SEEN OBVIOUSLY JACINDA, HUGELY POPULAR RESIGN CITING SHE HASN'T GOT ANY MORE ENERGY IN THE TANK.

SCOTLAND RESIGNING AND TALKING ABOUT HOW DIFFICULT IT IS PARTICULARLY AS A WOMAN TO LEAD ANY KIND OF NORMAL LIFE AS A GLOBAL LEADER.

I WONDER WHAT YOU BOTH THINK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE THE FIRST FEMALE IN THIS POSITION.

YOU WERE THE FIRST FEMALE DEFENSE MINISTER IN YOUR COUNTRY.

YOU EXPERIENCED SEXISM.

BRIEFLY, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT STEPPING DOWN AND HOW DO YOU ENCOURAGE WOMEN?

THAT'S A BRIEF SUMUP AND THEN I'LL ASK YOU.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I'M SO HAPPY WE LIVE IN COUNTRIES WHERE LEADERS CHANGE.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

>> BUT PRIME MINISTER -- [ APPLAUSE ] >> THAT'S ALL GOOD BUT IF I WAS TARGETING YOU -- >> I UNDERSTAND.

>> I WOULD ASK YOU WHY DID YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR BEING A HUMAN BEING?

YOU WERE FOUND DANCING, OH MY GOODNESS, HOW AWFUL AND HAD TO APOLOGIZE FOR BEING A HUMAN BEING WHY.

>> I ALSO DANCE THAT ONE TIME -- [ APPLAUSE ] >> I THINK THERE'S OF COURSE A LOT TO BE DONE WITH GENDER EQUALITY.

IT VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, DIFFERENT GENDERS BUT ALSO DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS IN DECISION MAKING PLACES, SAME TABLE MAKING DECISIONS BECAUSE THEN WE HAVE THE PROSPECTIVE OF EVERYONE.

WOMEN ARE THE 50% OF THE WORLD SO WOMEN NEED TO BE 50% OF THE DECISION MAKING BODIES.

I KNOW URSHELA AND THE COMMISSION IS PREPARING TO SET A BILL FOR COMPANIES TO HAVE MORE WOMEN REPRESENTATIVES ON THE BOARD OF COMPANIES.

I THINK THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD.

I THINK ALSO IN THE POLITICAL SYSTEM, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN HAVE THE POSSIBILITIES TO STEP UP TO HAVE THEIR VOICES HEARD.

THERE ARE A LOT OF STRUCTURES WITHIN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEMS THAT ACTUALLY PREVENT WOMEN TO GET THOSE POSITIONS TO BE HEARD.

MANY TIMES, IT'S ENOUGH THAT THERE IS ONE WOMEN, LOOK, WE HAVE THIS WOMEN HERE.

NO PROBLEM.

BUT WE NEED MORE WOP MEN AND THE 50% TO MAKE SURE EVEN'S VOICES ARE HEARD.

>> COMMISSIONER, PRESIDENT, WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT?

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO SO MUCH BACKLASH, ALL OF THAT?

>> THEY ARE DEEP ROOTED UNCONSCIOUSNESS BIASES.

>> DISCOURAGE OR ENCOURAGE -- >> WELL, I CAN ONLY ENCOURAGE MORE WOMEN TO BE ON STAGE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE BELONG IN THE LIMELIGHT.

ONE IS NOT BETTER THAN THE OTHER BUT WE'RE DIFFERENT AND THAT'S THE POINT THAT WE HAVE TO, OF COURSE, TAKE THE CARE OF THE SHOWER TO CHANGE THIS WORLD AND TO IMPROVE THIS WORLD AND I THINK FOR THAT, I MEAN, I ME YOU'VE DONE A LOT -- WE'RE DOING A LOT.

YOU NEED LEADERSHIP FROM THE TOP.

THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

EVERY MAN IN THE TOP POSITION, EVERY WOMAN IN A TOP POSITION HAS TO INFLUENCE THAT MORE WOMEN COMING, GROWING UP TO THE TOP.

OF COURSE, IT ALSO QUESTION OF INFRASTRUCTURE SO I VIVIDLY REMEMBER MY MOST DIFFICULT TIME AS A MINISTER WITH SMALL CHILDREN.

ALL THESE, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHERE YOU GOING TO BE A BAD MOTHER OR A BAD MINISTER.

THERE WAS A PREJUDICE YOU CAN'T BE A GOOD MINISTER OR A GOOD MOTHER.

WE KNOW THESE PREJUDICES.

WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS MAKE SURE INFRASTRUCTURE IS THERE THAT YOU HAVE FOR YOUNG COUPLES SUPPORT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE UNTIL WE HAVE AN EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF MEN AND WOMEN, I'M AN ADVOCATE FOR QUOTA.

THAT'S THE REASON WE INTRODUCED A QUOTA IN GERMANY.

THAT'S THE REASON WE INTRODUCED THE QUOTA ON THE EUROPEAN LEVEL BECAUSE THE TIME UNTIL WOMEN KIND OF GROW NATURAL THROUGH THE RANKS, NATURALLY THROUGH THE RANKS IS JUST TOO LONG AND THEREFORE, STILL A LOT TO DO BUT I CAN ONLY RECOMMEND TO WOMEN HANG ON THERE BECAUSE WE NEED YOU, WE NEED YOUR VOICE AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU'RE THERE.

>> JUST SUCH A FASCINATING DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HARD POWER WHEN IT COMES TO UKRAINE AND ALSO, HOW TO ACHIEVE EQUALITY IN ALL FIELDS OF LIFE.

NOW WE TURN TO A BURNING LOVE STORY BETWEEN ONE COUPLE AND THE WORLD.

THE DOCUMENTARY "FIRE OF LOVE" TELLS THE EPIC TALE OF SCIENTISTS AND THEIR LIFELONG QUEST TO DISCOVER THE STORIES AND SEC RELATES OF VOLCANOS.

♪ ♪ >> THIS IS KATCHA AND THIS IS MAURICE.

TOMORROW WILL BE THEIR LAST DAY.

THEY WILL LEAVE BEHIND HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF FOOTAGE, THOUSANDS OF PHOTOS AND A MILLION QUESTIONS.

>> SINCE IT RELEASE, THE FILM HAS RECEIVED CRITICAL ACCLAIM AND AN OSCAR NOMINATION.

DIRECTOR SARAH JOINS HARRY TO DISCUSS THE INCREDIBLE FOOTAGE SHOT BY THE PAIR DURING THEIR DARING EXPEDITIONS.

>>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FIRST OF ALL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PREMISE OF THIS MOVIE, IT KIND OF JUST BLOWS YOUR MIND.

THERE WAS A COUPLE THAT STUDIES VOLCANOS?

HOW DID YOU FIND THIS STORY?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON TODAY.

GREAT TO BE HERE.

I FOUND THE STORY SERENDIPITOUSLY.

IT TELLS THE STORY OF AN ICELAND WOMAN IN COMMUNICATION WITH NATURE AND WE WANTED TO OPEN THE FILM ACTUALLY WITH ARCHIVES ERUPTING VOLCANOS IN ICELAND AND ONCE WE WENT ABOUT THE RESEARCH, WE LEARNED ABOUT THE ERUPTING VOLCANOS IN ICELAND BEFORE ONCE WE LEARNED ABOUT THINK LOVE FOR THE PLANET, WE WERE HOOKED.

THE FACT THEY WERE IN LEAVE WITH EACH OTHER AND EARTH GOT THE BALL ROLLING ON MAKING "FIRE OF LOVE".

>> COULD ONLY DREAM OF VOLCANOS TOGETHER THEY CAN REACH THEM.

THEY MEET ON A BLIND DATE IN A CAFE.

FROM HERE ON OUT LIFE WILL ONLY BE VOLCANOS, VOLVOLCANOS, VOLCANOS.

>> [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] >> TELL ME ABOUT THIS COUPLE.

THAT'S SORT OF SO FASCINATING TO ME.

HOW DID TWO PEOPLE WHO LOVE VOLCANOS SO MUCH DECIDE TO DO THIS.

>> THEY ARE SUCH SINGULAR INDIVIDUALS.

THEY MET AS UNIVERSITY STUDENTS IN THE LATE 60s AND THEY REALIZED THAT THEY BOTH POSSESSED THIS RARE PASSION FOR VOLCANOS.

BOTH GREW UP IN POST WAR FRANCE RIGHT ALONG THE GERMAN BORDER AND THEY BOTH POSSESS KIND OF A SENSE OF DISILLUSIONMENT WITH HUMANITY.

THEY KIND OF FELT THAT HUMANS DESTROYED MORE THAN THEY CREATED WHEREAS THEY HAD AN IDEAL VISION OF VOLCANOS AS THIS CREATIVE FORCE, CREATED LAND AND BROUGHT LIFE TO THE WORLD AND HAVING THAT UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE AT A YOUNG AGE CAUSED THEM TO BOND, ONCE THEY BEGAN TRAVELING THE WORLD TOGETHER EXPLORING ERUPTING VOLCANOS, THEY EXPERIENCED A TRAN SENDING PERHAPS YOU CAN CALL IT BY WITNESSING SOMETHING THAT POWERFUL AS THE VOLCANIC ERUPTION THERE IS NO TURNING BACK.

THEY WANTED TO DEDICATE LIVES TOWARDS EXPLORING THAT MYSTERY AND THE FACT THEY HAD EACH OTHER ALONG THE WAY MADE IT ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT AND MEANINGFUL FOR THEM.

>> TELL US ABOUT ALL OF THESE REELS OF FOOTAGE THAT YOU WENT THROUGH AND STILL PHOTOS YOU USED HERE.

THEY WERE DOCUMENTING THESE IN PART FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, RIGHT?

>> THEY WERE.

THEIR CORE HORTS WERE REALLY DEVOTED TOWARDS CAPTURING VOLCANIC PHENOMENON BECAUSE NO VOLCANO ERUPTS THE SAME TWICE.

WHEN YOU CAN SET IT TO THE CAMERA THROUGH STILL PHOTOGRAPHY OR CINEMATOGRAPHY YOU CAN SET IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND ENABLE ADVENTURES TO MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE THEY WERE SUPPORTED FOR THE DOCUMENTATION OF WORK AS WELL.

BUT THAT CAUSED THEM TO SHOOT HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF FOOTAGE.

NOT JUST DATA BUT A CONDUIT FOR THEM TO CONNECT WITH THE BEAUTY AND THE MAGIC AND THE MYSTERY OF THE PLANETS THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY IN LOVE WITH CAPTURING THE IMAGERY AS WELL.

CELEBRITIES IN FRANCE AND BECAME CELEBRITIES OVER TIME IN FRANCE BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE INTRIGUED BY THIS LIFE, LIFE'S PURSUIT AND LOVE STORY AND SO THEY APPEARED ON TELEVISION SHOWS, ON THE NEWS, THEY EVEN HAD THEIR OWN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM FOR KIDS SO WITH THE FOOTAGE, THERE IS A VISUAL AND AUDIO RECORD AVAILABLE TO US TO GET TO USE AS WELL.

>> WE DON'T -- I GUESS WE TAKE IT FOR GRANTED NOW BECAUSE WE'VE GROWN UP SEEING THINGS THAT WELL BEFORE THESE TWO, NO ONE HAD EVER SEEN RIVERS OF LAVA FLOWING.

RIGHT?

UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TON LIVE NEAR A VOLCANO BUT THEY WERE THE PIONEERS IN THIS BRINGING BACK THIS FOOTAGE OF ALMOST ANOTHER WORLD TO THE REST OF US.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL WAY OF PUTTING IT.

OF COURSE, PEOPLE LIVED IN RELATIONSHIP WITH VOLCANOS FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS DEPICTING IT THROUGH STORIES AND ART.

BUT THE WAY THAT THEY USED THEIR CAMERAS TO DOCUMENT VOLCANOS, AGAIN, IT WASN'T JUST SCIENTIFIC DATA.

I REALLY BELIEVE IT WAS ART.

THERE IS SUCH A LOVE THAT RADIATES BEHIND THE FRAMES AND YOU CAN FEEL THE CONNECTEDNESS AND DESIRE TO BE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.

THEY DID IN FACT GO AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO GET THESE KINDS OF SHOTS.

I'M STILL IN AWE OF THE KINDS OF COMPOSITION THEY CAPTURED ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE HEAT.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE SHOTS IS OF KATIA IN ICELAND IN THE MID '80s WHEN SHE GETS UP SO CLOSE TO THE END OF THE VOLCANO AND HAS A THERMOMETER IN HER HANDS AND APPARENTLY THE READING WAS 1200 DEGREES CELSIUS AND THERE IS MOMENTS WHERE YOU CAN KIND OF DETECT A SMILE ON HER FACE THAT SHE'S COMING BACK AND SHE'S JUST IN AWE.

SHE'S JUST ABSOLUTELY IN LOVE YET THAT IS JUST UTTERLY DANGEROUS WHAT SHE'S EXPERIENCING IN THAT MOMENT.

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THESE REALLY WONDERFUL LIGHT HEARTEDNESS MOMENTS.

THEY HAVE THE CAMERA TO CAPTURE POTENTIAL ERUPTION AND STUFF BUT ALSO A LITTLE BIT LIKE YOUR HOME VIDEOS HAPPEN TO BE NEXT TO A VOLCANO.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THEY WERE KNOWN FOR THEIR SENSE OF HUMOR.

THEY WERE VERY PLAYFUL PEOPLE THAT COMES ACROSS ABSOLUTELY IN THEIR FOOTAGE AND SOMETHING THEIR FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES AND FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WE ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED AS WELL ALWAYS SPOKE ABOUT.

AS A TEAM, WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT HUMOR BOTH IN TERMS OF HOW TO MAKE SURE THEIR PERSONALITY WAS CAPTURED IN THE FILM BUT ALSO WHAT IT MEANS TO KIND OF LIVE IN RELATIONSHIP TO DEATH THE WAY THE TWO OF THEM DID.

THEY KNEW THEY COULD DIE AT ANY MOMENT PURSUING SUCH DANGEROUS WORK AND THAT ALMOST SEEMED TO FREE THEM UP TO UNDERSTAND THE ABSURDITY OF LIFE SO TO SPEAK.

THERE IS A LEVITY TO THINGS.

THEY WERE FREED FROM LESSER CONCERNS PERHAPS.

THEY WOULD ALWAYS COME TO WHAT THEY VIEWED AS PETTY AND VAIN HUMAN PREOCCUPATIONS BUT TO BE CLOSE TO A VOLCANO IS KEEN TO THE DIVIDE AND SEEMED TO ALLOW THEM TO DWELL IN THE PLAYFUL HUMOROUS WORLDS THAT WERE FOUND WITH THEIR LIFE'S PHILOSOPHY, TOO.

>> THE UNKNOWN IS NOT SOMETHING TORE FEARED.

IT IS SOMETHING TO GO TOWARD.

>> [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] >> THEY KIND OF TOOK DIFFERENT APPROACHES.

ONE WAS EXPLAINED AS A BIRD.

ONE WAS EXPLAINED AS A SEAL.

>> SHE IS LIKE A BIRD AND MAURICE IS LIKE AN ELEPHANT SEAL.

PLAYING WITH THE BIRD IS LIKE DIVING AND BOBBING AND WEAVING WITH IT AND THEN MAURICE IS EGGING ON THIS BALD ELEPHANT.

A DANGEROUS ANIMAL BUT BECKENING IT TO COME TOWARDS HIM.

THAT COMPARISON WE WANTED TO USE THEIR FOOTAGE TO DESCRIBE THEIR OWN PERSONALITIES AND WE ALSO -- THAT SPECIFIC REFERENCE ACTUALLY COMES FROM AND WAS INSPIRED BY A FEW LINES DESCRIBED IN SIMILAR TERMS.

I SHOULD SAY EVERY CREATIVE CHOICE WE MADE IN THE FILM WAS GUIDED BY THEM.

WE SAW THEM AS THE NORTH STAR BUT AS YOU SAID, THEY WERE VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE A SHARED GOAL AND THEY KNEW THEY NEEDED EACH OTHER TO PURSUE THIS LOVE OF VOLCANOS BUT HAD DIFFERENT APPROACHES AND CREATED CONFLICT AT TIMES.

SHE WAS THOUGHT TO BE A BIT MORE METHODOLOGY.

SHE BY NO MEANS WAS CAUTIOUS.

SHE WAS EXTREMELY BOLD AND COURAGEOUS.

MAURICE WAS A BIT MORE I WILLING TO RISK ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING.

HE WAS KNOWN TO HAVE A CERTAIN KIND OF ANTICS OR TO REALLY BE SUCH A DAREDEVIL THAT SOMETIMES SHE BELIEVED HIS DARING WAYS WOULD JEOPARDIZE THE LEGITIMACY OF HIS SCIENTIFIC WORK AND CAUSED THEM TO TUSSLE BUT THEY WOULD RECONCILE KNOWING THEY HAD TO TO LIVE THIS LIFE OF PURPOSE THAT THEY -- SO DEVOTED THEIR LIVES.

>> THEY SHARED THE RED VOLCANOS, THE HOT LAVA TO THE GRAY VOLCANOS THAT SPEW TONS OF ASH AND CAUSE DESTRUCTION.

WHY DID THEY DO THAT AND WHY DID THEY DO THAT?

>> WE'RE AWARE AND INTRIGUED BY THE EXPLOSIVE VOLUME KAY KNOWS BUT PARTICULARLY ANIMATED BY THE PURSUIT OF THE UNKNOWN.

THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY IN 1980 WHEN MOUNT ST. HELENS ERUPTED TO RESEARCH A GRAY VOLCANO OF COURSE THERE IS A TRAGEDY NEARLY 60 PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND THE ENTIRE AREA WAS DESTROYED YET IT WAS A WATERSHED MOMENT TO STUDY THE ONCE IN A HUMAN LIFETIME ERUPT AND IGNITED CURIOSITY AND FELT THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DELVE INTO THE TYPE OF VOLCANO THAT WASN'T AS WELLESS KNOWN AND DANGEROUS AND SHE WAS DRIVEN BY THIS PURSUIT OF SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING FOR HER, SHE WANTED TO HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY LEARN AND MAURICE IS SO IN LOVE WITH THAT BUT THE DANGER GOT HIM MORE EXCITED SO FOR THEM, THEY DECIDED TO COMPROMISE AND DEDICATE THEIR LIVES BECAUSE AT THAT MOMENT AND IN THEIR RELATIONSHIP AND LIVES, MAURICE IS VERY MUCH WANTING TO DEVELOP A KIND OF VESSEL THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO RIDE DOWN A RED LAVA FLOW.

HE WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS AND BUT OFTEN WOULD TEASE HER WITH THIS AS KIND OF LIKE THEY WANTED TO -- OR HE WANTED TO GET SO CLOSE HE LITERALLY WANTED TO BE IN THE LAVA FLOW BUT THROUGH THEIR CONVERSATIONS, BASED ON OUR RESEARCH, THEY KIND OF COMPROMISED AND INSTEAD SAID OKAY STUDYING EXPLOSIVE VOLCANOS WILL GET THEM CLOSE TO THE DANGER AND PROVIDE THIS OF TIMES TIE FOR UNDERSTANDING WHAT SHE WANTS.

SO THEY REALLY SHIFTED THEIR FOCUS TOWARDS THAT KIND OF STUDY AND THAT CARRIED THEM THROUGH THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

>> HOW DID THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY REACT TO THEM?

>> YEAH, THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY DEFINITELY HAS DIVERSE OPINIONS BY IN LARGE WE FOUND WITH THE SCIENCE ADVISORS YOU ARE WORKING WITH OUR FILM AND SINCE THE FILM IS RELEASED IS THAT THEY WERE VERY MUCH CELEBRATED AS PIONEERS AND SO DEDICATED TOWARDS COLLECTING THIS IMAGERY AND SO DRIVEN BY THEIR LOVE THAT THEIR WORK WENT ON TO INSPIRE GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE TO GO INTO GIO SCIENCE AS WELL AND FOR HER IN PARTICULAR, SHE BATTLED SUCH SEXISM DOING THE WORK SHE DID AS ONE OF THE ONLY WOMEN IN VOLCANO STUDY AT THAT TIME AND ONE OF THE MOST REWARDING THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING NOW, WE GET ALL KINDS OF LETTERS FROM PEOPLE SAYING I KNEW ABOUT HER WHEN I WAS LITTLE AND I LEARNED ABOUT HER AND SHE WAS THE REASON WHY I'M A GIO SCIENTIST NOW OR SOME PEOPLE TODAY ARE SAYING THANK YOU FOR HER, MY LITTLE GIRL, SAW HER AND DRESSED UP AS HER FOR HALLOWEEN AND NOW IT'S HAVING THIS LOVE OF SCIENCE.

THE WAY SHE IN PARTICULAR IS A ROLE MODEL WAS EXTREMELY MEANINGFUL.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THEY DID DEFY SAFETY REGULATIONS TO GO ABOUT THE WORK THAT THEY DID AND THAT CREATED CONTROVERSY FOR PEOPLE FOR SURE.

BUT LIFE'S WORK BEGS THAT QUESTION HOW FAR WOULD YOU GO FOR YOUR WORK?

WOULD YOU SACRIFICE FOR YOUR PASSION IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE?

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF SCIENTISTS TODAY VERY MUCH WRESTLE WITH IN ORDER TO DO THE DARING AND WORLD CHANGING WORK THAT THEY DO.

>> YOU KNOW, ONE THING I WONDER IS PERHAPS THIS IS A TESTAMENT TO YOUR FILM MAKING BUT BY THE TIME WE GET TO THE POINT IN THE FILM WHERE WE DISCUSS THE END OF THEIR LIVES AS A VIEWER, YOU'RE SAD.

YOU'VE FELT CONNECTED TO THEM OVER THE PERIOD OF THE FILM AND I WONDER GIVEN ALL THE RESEARCH YOU DID.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?

>> ON THEIR LAST TRIP THEY WERE VERY FOCUSED ON CAPTURING A VERY PARTICULAR SHOT OF A FLOW WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS FORCES ON THE PLANET.

THEY WANTED TO DO SO SO THAT THEY COULD ILLUSTRATE HOW THE FLOWS MOVED SO THEY COULD PUT IT IN A VIDEO ABOUT UNDER VOLCANIC HAZARDS THAT THEY WERE USING TO TEACH GOVERNMENTS AND DECISION MAKING FORCES.

IT WAS IMPORTANT VOLCANOS NO LONGER KILL, WHICH OF COURSE IS NOT ACTUALLY POSSIBLE.

THEY WITNESSED SUCH DEVASTATION, NAMELY AT THE ERUPTION IN COLOMBIA IN 1985 WHERE OVER 22,000 PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT EVACUATED IN TIME.

THERE WEREN'T PROPER WARNING SYSTEMS PUT IN PLACE, THAT THEY REALLY WANTED TO USE THEIR IMAGERY TO INSTEAD TEACH PEOPLE ON HOW THESE DANGEROUS FORCES WORKED TO SAVE LIVES.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING THAT DAY IN JUNE IN 1991 AT THE BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN TRYING TO CAPTURE PARTICULAR SHOT AND IT TRAGIC YET THERE IS SOMETHING DEEPLY POIGNANT AND P POETIC THEY WERE TRYING TO SAVE LIVES.

IT'S QUITE TRAGIC.

THERE ARE PEOPLE MOURNING THEM TODAY BUT THEIR WORK REALLY HAS GONE ON TO SAVE LIVES AND TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO UNDERSTAND THIS VERY MYSTERIOUS FORCE.

>> ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE AN OSCAR NOMINEE?

>> IT A PROFOUND HONOR.

I'M DEEPLY HUMBLED AND STILL SURPRISED BY OUR OSCAR NOMINATION.

MY TEAM AND I, WE TEND TO MAKE VIDEO FILMS ABOUT PEOPLE AND WE NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS IMAGINED THIS WOULD HAPPEN.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS WHERE I JUST KIND OF LOOK BACK AND FEELS JUST OVERWHELMING SENSE OF GRATITUDE FOR MY MENTORS, FOR MY COLLABORATORS, FOR KATIA AND MAURICE FOR SHARING THEIR STORY FOR US FROM THEIR VOLCANO IN THE SKY.

I THINK GRATITUDE IS REALLY THE THING THAT RUSSIA IS FORTH MOST.

I'M HUMBLED TO BE IN THE COMPANY OF THE OTHER FILMS NOMINATED.

I LOVE THEM ALL AND DEVELOPED FRIENDSHIPS WITH THE FILM MAKERS IN THIS JOURNEY SO IT'S MEANINGFUL TO BE IN THIS ALL TOGETHER AND YEAH, IT JUST -- I LOVE THE FACT THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO KNOW THE STORY OF KATIA AND MAURICE CRAFT NOW.

THEIR STORY HASN'T COME TO LIFE THAT MUCH IN THE PAST 30 YEARS SINCE THEIR DEATHS SO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE GET TO KNOW THIS WONDERFULLY CHARISMATIC COUPLE WHO CAN REALLY RELAY WHAT IT MEANS TO FALL IN LOVE WITH THE EARTH, THAT IS PARTICULARLY GRATIFYING FOR ME AND THE FACT THAT THEIR WORK IS GETTING THIS KIND OF RECOGNITION TODAY IS VERY MEANINGFUL.

>> THE FILM IS CALLED "FIRE OF LOVE ".

SARAH, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> ROLE MODELS INDEED PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR THEIR PASSION AND FINALLY TONIGHT, FRESH FROM HIS MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN IN WARSAW, I SIT DOWN WITH THE POLISH PRESIDENT ANDRE DUDA HERE IN THE CAPITAL.

JOIN US TOMORROW NIGHT TO SEE THE INTERVIEW IN FULL AND NEXT, I TRAVEL TO UKRAINE FOR REPORTING ON A YEAR OF RESISTANCE AND THE FUTURE OF THIS WAR.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THIS SHOW, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT FROM KYIV.