>>> IN THE YEAR AND A HALF SINCE AMERICA'S IGNOMINIOUS WITHDRAWAL FROM AFGHANISTAN, THE TALIBAN HAVE SCRUBBED AWAY TWO DECADES OF RIGHTS FOR WOMEN AND GIRLS.
NOW REFUGEES WHO HAVE MANAGED TO ESCAPE TO AMERICA FACE THE REAL PROSPECT THAT THEY MAY BE SENT BACK TO LIVE UNDER THE THUMB OF THE TALIBAN.
THE AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT ACT, A BILL TO EXTEND THIS DAY IN THE U.S., IS NOW STALLED IN CONGRESS.
IF IT FAILS, ALMOST 80,000 AFGHAN EVACUEES RISK THEIR FREEDOM AND POSSIBLY THEIR LIVES.
A REFUGEE RUNS THE LUTHERAN IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE SERVICE, AND SHE JOINS US TO DISCUSS THEIR FATE.
>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.
THIS CONVERSATION IS HAPPENING AT A TIME WHEN THERE ARE MORE THAN 77,000 AFGHAN EVACUEES LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW.
THEIR STATUS IS IN LIMBO.
WHY?
WHO ARE THEY?
WHAT IS AT STAKE?
>> YEAH.
SO THE SITUATION IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE URGENT.
THESE ARE THE EVACUEES WHO WORKED ALONGSIDE THE U.S. MILITARY, THE U.S. EMBASSY.
THEY WERE ADVOCATES FOR GENDER RIGHTS, FREEDOM OF PRESS, AND OTHER AMERICAN AND WESTERN VALUES.
QUITE FRANKLY IS FRUSTRATING THAT 18 MONTHS AFTER THE WITHDRAWAL THERE ARE STILL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AFGHAN ALLIES CAUGHT UP IN AN UNNECESSARY LEGAL LIMBO.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A PERMANENT PATHWAY TO LEGAL STATUS.
SO THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN STAY IN THE U.S. OR WHETHER THEY WILL BE RETURNED TO AFGHANISTAN TO FACE TALIBAN RETRIBUTION.
>> SO YOUR ORGANIZATION, LUTHERAN IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE SERVICES, HAS RESETTLED ABOUT 14,000 OF THESE FOLKS.
TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT TRANSITION HAS BEEN LIKE SINCE THE AMERICAN WITHDRAWAL, WHICH WAS, AT BEST, TRAUMATIC.
>> WE HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO MEET SOME INCREDIBLE PEOPLE, PATRIOTS WHO REALLY RISK THEIR LIVES AND THEIR FAMILY'S LIVES TO HELP US IN AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR.
THE PAST FEW MONTHS HAVE BEEN AS HELPING TO FIND AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THEM, MOVING THEM INTO THOSE HOUSES, FINDING PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
BUT JUST CANDIDLY, IN TERMS OF THE TOLL OF THE UNCERTAINTY, IT REALLY HAS ADDED IMMENSE STRESS AND ANXIETY TO AN ALREADY DIFFICULT EXPERIENCE REBUILDING.
A YEAR AND A HALF LATER, OUR CASE MANAGERS ARE STILL FEELING THE QUESTION FROM AFGHANS ON A NEARLY DAILY BASIS OF WHEN WILL I KNOW I CAN STAY IN THE U.S. >> SO THE QUESTION ABOUT STAYING, THAT MIGHT SEEM LIKE A SMALL SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE, A LOT OF AMERICANS WATCHING THIS ARE GOING TO SHORTHAND IT AS "REFUGEES."
BUT THE WORD REFUGEE, VERSUS PEOPLE ON HUMANITARIAN PAROLE, IS VERY DIFFERENT.
EXPLAIN THE DISTINCTION.
>> A REFUGEE IS SOMEONE WHO TRAVELED TO A THIRD COUNTRY.
THEY APPLIED THROUGH THE U.N. OR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND WERE ABLE TO RESETTLE IN THE U.S.
BUT WHEN THEY ARRIVE IN THE U.S., ESSENTIALLY THEIR LEGAL PROCESS HAS ENDED, MEANING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ADMITTED TO THE U.S. AND THEY KNOW THEY WILL STAY HERE FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.
HUMANITARIAN PAROLE IS A TEMPORARY STATUS.
FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE TIME LIMIT THAT WAS ALLOWED IS, IT MEANS THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO STAY HERE FOR A YEAR OR TWO , AND NOW THEY HAVE TO ADJUST THEIR STATUS.
THAT IS WHY WE HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THE AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT ACT, BECAUSE IT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO CHANGE THEIR STATUS TO A MORE PERMANENT ONE.
CONGRESS HAS DONE THIS FOR EVERY MODERN WARTIME EVACUATION POPULATION BEFORE.
SO IT WOULD BE UNPRECEDENTED FOR US TO NOT DO THIS FOR OUR AFGHAN ALLIES.
>> SO SENATOR CALLED HR ALSO HAS CALLED REPUBLICAN COSPONSORS TO THIS ACT.
WHY IS IT STALLED RIGHT NOW?
>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.
IN THE PREVIOUS CONGRESS WE DID MEET SOME KEY RESISTANCE.
THE BILL SPONSORS AND SUPPORTERS HAVE WORKED IN GOOD FAITH TO ADDRESS THEM.
THAT IS WHY THE AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT ACT INCLUDES MORE SCREENING ON TOP OF THE RIGOROUS PROCESS.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THEY WERE VETTED THROUGHOUT THE EVACUATION AND THE TIME THEY SPENT ON U.S. MILITARY BASES.
BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW NOT ONLY WHO OPPOSES THIS BILL BUT ALSO WHO SUPPORTS IT.
THERE HAS BEEN SUCH ENTHUSIASM FROM VETERANS ORGANIZATIONS, ADVOCATES, FAITH COMMUNITIES, CIVIL SOCIETY GROUPS.
RECENT POLLING SHOWS THAT 76% OF AMERICANS WANT TO DO RIGHT BY OUR AFGHAN ALLIES AND PASS THIS BILL.
>> FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT HAVE SECURITY CONCERNS, WHAT ARE THE ADDITIONAL STEPS THAT HAVE NOW BEEN TAKEN TO ASSUAGE THE CONCERNS OF THESE REPUBLICAN HAVE HAD THESE, AND IF YOU CAN DESCRIBE IN KIND OF A THUMBNAIL THE LAYERS OF VETTING THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED FOR THIS POPULATION?
>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE EVACUEES, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REFUGEES, THEY ARE THE MOST- VETTED IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE ENTERING THE U.S., BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN A LONG, DRAWN- OUT PROCESS.
THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE GOING THROUGH BIOMETRIC CHECKS .
YOU HAVE OUR INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WORKING CLOSELY TOGETHER WITH THE FBI AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERY DATABASE THAT WE CAN CHECK THESE INDIVIDUALS AGAINST, THAT THESE CHECKS ARE BEING DONE.
THESE ARE ALSO INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IN U.S. COMMUNITIES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THANKFULLY WE DON'T HAVE STORIES EVERY DAY ABOUT SOME TERRORIST WHO HAS INFILTRATED OUR COMMUNITY.
THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BECOME OUR NEIGHBORS.
THEY ARE WORKING IN SCHOOLS AND IN HOSPITALS.
THEY ARE WORKING AT THE RESTAURANT THAT WE VISIT LOCALLY.
SO THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WE EITHER KNEW BECAUSE THEY WORKED ALONGSIDE OUR MILITARY AND EMBASSIES IN SOME OF THE MOST SENSITIVE OPERATIONS ABROAD, OR THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO WE FREQUENTLY GOT TO KNOW DURING THE VETTING AS THEY GOT ON PLANES WHEN THEY WERE ON MILITARY BASES AND IN SO-CALLED THIRD COUNTRY LILY PADS BEFORE THEY CAME TO THE U.S.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT, HARRY, TO STRESS THAT THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH AND WILL GO THROUGH ADDITIONAL VETTING AS A RESULT OF THE ADJUSTMENT ACT.
>> SO IS THERE A SPECIFIC DEADLINE, OR DOES IT DEPEND ON WHEN THESE EVACUEES LAND IN THE UNITED STATES?
WHAT ARE THEY FACING?
>> SO IT DOES DEPEND ON WHEN THEY ARRIVED.
ESSENTIALLY ONCE THEY WERE THEY HAD TWO YEARS FROM THAT TIME FOR AN IN ORDER TO CHANGE THEIR STATUS.
WE ARE COMING UP ON THAT AUGUST DEADLINE FOR MANY OF THEM, PERHAPS SEPTEMBER.
BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT NO IMMIGRATION PROCESS IN THE U.S. IS QUICK.
THAT IS WHY THE SENSE OF URGENCY AND DESPERATION IS ALREADY BEING FELT, AND THAT IS NOT JUST BY OUR CLIENTS!
EVERY DAY WE HEAR FROM LANDLORDS, AND THEY HAVE BEEN HELPFUL IN TERMS OF OPENING UP HOUSING TO THIS COMMITTEE.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THESE INDIVIDUALS, SO THERE IS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ACROSS THE BOARD.
>> WHERE THESE EVACUEES LOCATED ACROSS THE UNITED STATES?
>> BARON COMMUNITIES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
BUT IN PARTICULAR, YOU SEE A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION IN PLACES LIKE NORTHERN VIRGINIA, TEXAS.
FOR MANY, THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD FAMILY HERE BEFORE OR THEY KNEW THAT THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT AFGHAN POPULATION IN A CERTAIN COMMUNITY AND GRAVITATED TOWARDS THAT AREA.
BUT IT HAS BEEN FASCINATING THAT WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NORTH DAKOTA OR OKLAHOMA, THERE HAVE BEEN WELCOMING COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY ENTHUSIASTIC AND GENEROUS IN HELPING AFGHAN FAMILIES FIND A NEW HOME THERE.
>> THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN DIFFERENT VETERANS GROUPS ADVOCATING ON BEHALF OF THESE INDIVIDUALS.
IN ADDITION TO THESE GROUPS, I AM SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE LOBBYING IN CONGRESS TO TRY TO GET THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION MOVING.
WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM LEGISLATORS YOU HAVE HEARD FROM?
>> WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS BROAD SUPPORT.
THE HAS BEEN A BIG REASON WHY WE HAVE SEEN SUCH BIPARTISANSHIP IN TERMS OF THE BILLS SPONSORED.
IN THE LAST CONGRESS WE WERE ABLE TO BRING ON 10 SENATE SPONSORS WITH FIVE FROM EACH PARTY.
SO WE ARE ENCOURAGED THAT THE BILL ENJOYS SUCH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.
THE VETERANS GROUPS THAT HAVE REALLY FOUGHT FOR THIS EVERY DAY HAVE BEEN VALUABLE ADVOCATES.
THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES OF HOW AN AFGHAN INTERPRETER WRIST THEIR LIFE TO SAVE THEIRS.
SO WE ARE STILL HOPEFUL THAT IN THIS CONGRESS, THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO GET THE AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT ACT PASSED.
>> I DON'T WANT TO PIT ONE COMMUNITY AGAINST EACH OTHER, BUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS THOUGHT ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN PAROLE STATUS FOR UKRAINIANS WHO CAME FROM MEXICO.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THIS POPULATION OF AFGHANS HAS NOT GOTTEN THAT TYPE OF SUPPORT?
AND I DO THINK THAT IT IS PROBLEMATIC WHEN YOU SEE DIFFERENT POLICIES THAT ARE PASSED FOR DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES.
WE MADE A PROMISE DURING OUR PRESENCE IN AFGHANISTAN THAT WE WOULD PROTECT THESE FAMILIES, THESE INDIVIDUALS, AND THAT WASN'T A TEMPORARY PROMISE.
SO I THINK IT IS A COMMITMENT THAT THE U.S.
NEEDS TO FULFILL, BUT THAT IS TRUE ACROSS THE BOARD.
WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT UKRAINIANS FLEEING PUTIN'S INVASION, OR THOSE WHO WORKED ALONGSIDE OUR U.S. MILITARY AND U.S. EMBASSY AND OTHERS, I DO THINK THAT IT IS A PROMISE THAT WE NEED TO FULFILL, AND IT IS THE U.S.
SHOWING GLOBAL HUMANITARIAN LEADERSHIP.
>> IF THE ADJUSTMENT ACT DOES NOT PASS, AND AUGUST COMES AROUND, WHAT DO THESE AFGHAN EVACUEES FACE?
>> I THINK IT DEPENDS A BIT ON WHO IS IN POWER.
ARE HOPEFUL AND FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT IF WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, WE DON'T EXPECT ANY DEPORTATION ORDERS, THAT THERE WOULD BE AN EXTENSION OF THE TEMPORARY STATUS, WHETHER THAT IS WHAT WE CALL RE-POLE, OR THEY ARE GRANTED TEMPORARY PROTECTION STATUS IN THE U.S.
SO THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO EXTEND THE STATUS BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE UNCERTAINTY AND THE STRESS THAT THESE FAMILIES ARE FACING UNLESS IT IS SOMETHING LIKE A LEGAL, LONG-TERM PATHWAY.
OF COURSE IF IT IS A CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATION, THEN I THINK THAT IT IS CONCERNING WHAT THEIR FUTURE HOLDS.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAD ADVISERS LIKE STEPHEN MILLER WHO THROUGH WRENCHES IN THE GEARS IN ORDER TO LESSEN THE NUMBER OF SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISAS THAT WERE GRANTED.
SO WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN CAME INTO POWER, HE ACTUALLY HAD A MASSIVE BACKLOG OF THESE INTERPRETERS OF, YOU KNOW, VILLA TERRY A.I.D.S.
WHO WERE JUST WAITING IN THE QUEUE.
THEY SHOULD'VE BEEN PROCESSED IN JUST NINE MONTHS.
THE AVERAGE TIME PERIOD WAS ABOUT THREE YEARS.
SO THAT IS WHAT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT, IS WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE A CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATION?
THERE IS NO AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT ACT PASSED, AND THESE FAMILIES ARE FACING THE PROSPECT OF BEING RETURNED TO AFGHANISTAN.
>> TELL ME ABOUT THE CONCERNS THAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM THE FAMILIES HERE.
THE AFGHANISTAN THAT THEY LEFT IS NOT THE ONE THAT THEY WOULD RETURN TO.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
I THINK THAT IS WHY WE HEAR FROM OUR CLIENTS SUCH GRAVE CONCERNS, BECAUSE FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE THEY FEAR THAT IF THEY ARE RETURNED IT COULD BE A DEATH SENTENCE.
THEY KNOW THAT NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR SERVICE, BUT BECAUSE THEY FLED THE COUNTRY, THEY HAVE A TARGET ON THEIR BACK.
THEY FEAR RETRIBUTION AGAINST THEIR FAMILY FOR ALL OF OUR CLIENTS.
I HEAR ABOUT FAMILY THAT THEY HAVE LEFT BEHIND WHO HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY THE TALIBAN, OR, YOU KNOW, IN DIFFERENT SITUATIONS HAVE HAD TO FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES AND RELOCATE.
SO IT IS AN INCREDIBLY DAUNTING PROSPECT OF THEIR RETURN.
>> WHAT ABOUT JUST THE STATUS OF WOMEN AND GIRLS AND HOW THAT HAS CHANGED?
HALF THE POPULATION HERE HAS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT IF THEY HAVE TO GO BACK.
>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
I HAVE MET SOME INCREDIBLE WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD AMAZING CAREERS IN AFGHANISTAN.
WE ACTUALLY WERE ABLE TO GIVE GRANT TO AN ENTREPRENEUR WHO WAS AMAZING IN AFGHANISTAN.
SHE HAS SUCH DRIVE THAT SHE HAS BROUGHT HERE TO THE U.S.
I AM SURE SHE WILL BE A SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR.
BUT WHEN I LEAD LET GIRLS LEARN FOR FIRST LADY MICHELLE OBAMA, WE KNEW WHAT THE TALIBAN COULD DO.
WE KNEW HOW THESE DELAYS AND RETURNING GIRLS TO SCHOOL CAN END UP BEING YEARS IF NOT DECADES.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS A LOST GENERATION OF GIRLS WHO DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO GET AN EDUCATION OR TO REALIZE THEIR POTENTIAL.
SO THE IDEA OF FAMILIES OF GIRLS, OF WOMEN WHO HAVE TASTED THE FREEDOM THAT AMERICA REPRESENTS TO BE RETURNED TO AFGHANISTAN, IT IS JUST A DISMAL PROSPECT AND WE CAN'T LET IT HAPPEN.
>> WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND THAT THEY ARE NOW DESCRIBING THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT?
>> THEY FEAR FOR THEIR FAMILIES LIVES, BECAUSE THE TALIBAN ARE OBVIOUSLY ROLLING WITHOUT CONSTRAINT.
THEY WORRY ABOUT THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS BECAUSE OF THE ESSENTIALLY COMPLETE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY , AND ALSO THERE IS NO REAL PROSPECT, THEY FEEL, FOR ADDITIONAL FAMILY MEMBERS COMING TO THE U.S. THAT CONCERNS US, BECAUSE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN THE ADMINISTRATION WERE CLEAR THAT EVEN WITHOUT THE MILITARY PRESENCE, OUR MISSION WASN'T COMPLETE UNTIL WE PROTECTED ALL THE ALLIES WHO WORKED ALONGSIDE US IN AFGHANISTAN.
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO FULFILL THAT PROMISE.
IT MAY BE HARD WITHOUT A CONSULATE PRESENCE.
IT MIGHT BE HARD WITHOUT U.S. BOOTS ON THE GROUND, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT FULFILL OUR PLEDGE.
>> I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHETHER THIS STRIKES A PERSONAL CHORD FOR YOU.
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY LEFT SRI LANKA DURING THAT CIVIL WAR AND MADE YOUR HOMES HERE.
>> IT DOES.
I KNOW THAT WHEN I FIRST MET SOME OF THE EVACUEES, I MET QUITE A NUMBER OF PARENTS WHO , I SAW IN THEM MY OWN PARENTS.
I WAS ONLY NINE MONTHS OLD WHEN MY PARENTS CAME HERE TO THE U.S.
I KNEW THAT IT TOOK A LOT FOR THEM TO MOVE HALFWAY ACROSS THE GLOBE WITH TWO VERY YOUNG KIDS IN THEIR ARMS, NO JOBS, AND JUST $200 IN THEIR POCKETS.
AS A PARENT MYSELF TO A FIVE- YEAR-OLD WITH A BABY ON THE WAY, DUE IN LESS THAN A MONTH, I UNDERSTAND WHY THESE PARENTS MADE THE DECISIONS THAT THEY DID.
BECAUSE OF COURSE ANY AMERICAN PARENT CAN UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF WANTING A SAFE AND SECURE LIFE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAS BEEN AMAZING IN TERMS OF WORKING WITH THE AFGHANS IS THAT WE SET UP IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA OFFICE, A TEMPORARY LOCATION.
WE HIRED TWO DOZEN STAFF, ALL OF WHOM WERE AFGHAN AND MANY OF WHOM RECENTLY ARRIVED.
THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO, AS THEY WERE SETTLING THEIR FAMILIES, SAID I WANT TO HELP THE NEXT PLANE THAT COMES IN.
THAT JUST REFLECTS THE AMERICAN SPIRIT, THE HUMAN SPIRIT, AND I GUESS THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS JUST SEEING THE GENEROSITY OF AMERICANS.
WE HAD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS SIGN UP IN A MATTER OF DAYS AND WEEKS TO HELP THESE COMMUNITIES.
TO ME, THAT REMINDS ME OF THE WELCOMING COMMUNITY THAT MY FAMILY, THANKFULLY, EXPERIENCED HERE, THAT GAVE US A NEW HOME.
>> PRESIDENT AND CEO OF LUTHERAN IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE SERVICES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, HARI.
