AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNET On the "News as hospital conditions become increasingly dire for the civilians caught in the crossfire.

AMNA NAWAZ: Congress struggles to reach an agreement to fund Israel, Ukraine and the Southern border before lawmakers head home for the holidays.

GEOFF BENNETT: And Judy Woodruff explores how the COVID pandemic has made for Americans to separate politics from public health.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, to take vaccines because of the damage done from this predatory anti-vaccine cam (BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

Israel intensified its military operations in Gaza's second largest city today, forcing tens of thousands of Palestinians to flee and making it more difficult to deliver aid.

AMNA NAWAZ: The United Nations says nearly 1.9 million people, or over 80 percent of Gaza's population, have been displaced by the war, many several times over.

They're now crowded into small areas in South and Central Gaza, with the humanitarian situation worsening by the day.

Southern Gaza is now the center of the war.

And, once again, civilians bear the brunt, caught between Ham Israel's bombardment.

In Khan Yunis overnight, Amal Mehd airstrike.

Sifting through the wr AMAL MAHDI, Displaced Gazan (through translator): We anyone, asleep, and I have young children, minding our own business.

All of a sudden, the bombardment hit us.

It was a miracle that we were pulled from under the rubble.

Israel says its troops have fully breached Khan Yunis in what they call a third phase of ground operations, surrounding the house of Gaza's Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar.

And the Israel Defense Forces released this rare image of 11 Hamas military commanders, five of whom the IDF says have been killed.

But fighting continues in the north.

Officials today claimed they discovered Gaza City.

Palestinians, meanwhil Mohammed Hamo fled his home in the north.

MOHAMMED HAMO, Displaced Gazan (throu is safe.

Nothing will No place is safe in Gaza.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the overcrowded frantically searches for her father.

Her younger siblings collapse into tears when he's found.

They're told that he's just injured his leg, but they cling to their father, injured in an airstrike at a Khan Yunis school.

SABA MAGNUM, 11-Year-Old Airstrike Survivor (t They hit us twice.

It landed on Then they all got injured.

AMNA NAWAZ: AMIR MAGNUM, 5-year-Old Airstrike Survivor and went to play with my friend.

Then, suddenly, I heard a sound go Father -- a big rock fell on my father, hit him here.

And a big rock fell on me here.

AMNA NAWAZ: Hospitals elsewhere have become funeral grounds.

Mourners gathered outside this facility in Deir al Balah, reciting prayers beside dozens of bodies lining the street.

According to Doctors Without Borders, hospitals supplies with some 200 wounded brought in every day.

At the nearby U.N. distribution center, crowds desperate for food waited hours for a small portion of flour.

Um Hussein says she's ri UM HUSSEIN, Displaced Gazan (through translator): The way they are gathering here, if t was bombing right now, how many martyrs would we have?

There should be food distribution centers in every area.

I didn't get anything.

Where am I supposed VOLKER TURK, United Nations of atrocity crimes.

AMNA NAWAZ: In Geneva in Gaza as apocalyptic.

VOLKER TURK: Some 1.9 are being pushed into ever-diminishing and extremely overcrowded places in Southern Gaza in unsanitary and unhealthy conditions.

And humanitarian aid is again virtually cut off as fears of widespread disease an spread.

AMNA NAWAZ: After a report that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said he would be willing to assume governance, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted -- quote -- "Those who educate their children for terrorism, finance terrorism and support terrorist families will not be able to rule Gaza after eliminating Hamas."

Whatever happens next, Gazans like May Selim are determined to stay there.

Sheltering in a tent city less than a mile from the Egyptian border, she says she'd rather die than move any further.

MAY SELIM, Displaced Gazan (throu After that, if they want to forcibly displace us, we will not leave.

They can kill us right here.

But we will not leave our land We will not do that.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: A gunman opened fire at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and the sheriff there said at least three people were shot.

There was no immediate word on their conditions.

Police and rescue units swarmed the campus as the uni least two buildings.

The gunman died af President Biden urged Congress today to approve billions of dollars in new military and economic aid to Ukraine.

The White House says the The president said that would be a gift to Russian President Vladimir Putin and that he would not stop with Ukraine.

JOE BIDEN, President of the Unit ally, when we have committed as a NATO member that we defend every i then we will have something that we don't seek and that we don't have today, American troops fighting Russian troops.

GEOFF BENNETT: Later, Senate Republ new action to tighten the U.S. Southern border.

President Biden says he's willing to make significant changes on border he gave no details.

In Ukraine, President Volodymyr mi litary production and defeat Russia against all odds.

The U.S. Justice Department today charged four Russians with war crimes against an American living in Ukraine.

They're accused of kidnapping wi fe in the spring of 2022.

Then they allegedly tortured him for 10 days.

The charges are largely symbolic, since the four def Republicans are holding their fourth presidential debate tonight, this time at the University of Alabama.

Once again, former Pre Instead, he appeared last night with FOX host Sean Hannity, and he would not po wer if he's reelected.

DONALD TRUMP, Former Presi He says, you're not going to b I said, no, no, no, other than We're closing the border and we're drilling, dril GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, President Biden had suggested Tuesday that he again if Mr. Trump were not running.

Today, he said there might be 50 Democrats -- "I will defeat him."

Former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is The California Republican announced it today in The Wall Street Journal.

He said -- quote -- "I have decided to depart the House to serve America in ne Hard right conservatives engineered McCarthy's ouster back in October.

He's the first speaker to be voted out of the job.

There's new evidence that 2023 is set to be the warmest year on record.

European Union scientists report that November was the sixth month in a row to break heat marks.

That news came t meetings in Dubai, amid debate over phasing out fossil fuels.

The E.U.

's climate commissioner appealed for bolder action.

WOPKE HOEKSTRA, European Commissioner for Climate Action: And the scienc clear.

I have repea We have no alternative than to follow what scientists tell us.

And they're telling us we're simply not on track.

I want this COP to mark the beginning of the end for foss GEOFF BENNETT: The climate summit continues through Tuesday.

Here at home, some of the country's biggest banks appealed to U.S. sen off new regulations.

The Biden administration's prop But CEOs of seven major banks argued it would curtail lending and hurt profits.

They also condemned efforts to limit overdraft fees.

JAMES GORMAN, CEO, Morgan Stanley: It makes no sense.

I mean, that's the bottom line.

I have been at this for a long time.

I served on the New York Fed board for years.

I have seen a lot of rules.

Some of them make sense and it's This doesn't make sense.

GEOFF BENNET rates.

Regulators s And on Wall Street, falling oil prices helped drag stocks lower.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost 70 points to close at 36054.

The Nasdaq fell 83 points.

The S&P 500 slipped 17.

And still to come on the "NewsHour": the 25th annivers highlights its scientific and cultural impact; author Tim Alberta discusses his new book about American evangelicals in an age of political extremism; and we reflect on the life of legendary TV producer and writer Norman Lear.

AMNA NAWAZ: Days of tension Capitol Hill culminated today in Republicans rejecting a measure to move ahead on additional funding for Ukraine and Israel.

Republicans have been insisting that foreign aid be paired with major changes to border security, but both sides of the aisle failed to find consensus and now billions of dollar in aid is stalled until lawmakers find a way forward.

In the middle of all this is Majority Whip and Senator from Illinois Dick Durbin joins us now.

Senator Durbin, Thanks for joini SEN. RICHARD DURB AMNA NAWAZ: There's no a SEN. RICHARD DURB The speaker of the Parliament of Ukraine was in my office today.

He told me what is obvious.

If we don't provide Putin is diminished dramatically.

And every single day, courageo against this war (INAUDIBLE) (APPLAUSE) SEN. RICHARD DURB We have got to stand with them, and AMNA NAWAZ: So how do you do that before the We heard President Biden say earlier he's open to significant ch Do you share that view?

SEN. RICHARD DURB Let's be ope I don't want the obvious.

We are being We have got to adjust the standards that are used at the border in a reasonable, humane way, but we have got to be open to change, Democrats, as well as Republicans.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, what are some of those changes you would be willing to compromise on that you weren't before?

Would they b SEN. RICHARD DURB be very careful, because there are people who are genuinely their lives are in danger, and we don't want to ignore that possibility.

But I also want to make sure that we have a system that make If I told you the countries that are producing immigrants at our border in the south of United States, you would be amazed, thousands coming from places like Uzbekistan.

You think to yourself, that is not what I expect to hear.

What is happening is an obvious move from around the world to use th as a refuge.

(APPLAUSE) AMNA NAWAZ: We're hearing Thank you for bearing I hope you c But I should recipients who were brought to the U.S. as children?

You have said that you will fight for them repeatedly, but they were these last rounds of talks.

What's your message to them today?

SEN. RICHARD DURB I have been fighting for these drea These young people, 800,000 of them or more, should be part of America's future.

And we have to do everything we can to make If I get a chance to be part of this immigration negotiation, and I hope I will, in clude that request.

AMNA NAWAZ: A significant portion of the emergency aid requested by t that security assistance.

As you well know, since that th an 15,000 Palestinians.

The majority are believed to be women and And your colleague Bernie Sanders is now saying it's absolutel unconditional aid.

Do you believe that aid sh SEN. RICHARD DURB And if we're it clear what the standards of conduct are that we expect.

And in the situation in Israel, there's no question they have a right to de that what happened on October 7 was an atrocity.

But we also are staring at a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions curren area, with the Palestinian people losing thousands and thousands of their own; 70 percent of the victims are women and children, an unheard-of number.

So we have got to say to the Israelis, yes, defend yourself, yes, make s is safe, but do it in a humane fashion.

AMNA NAWAZ: So what does a basic condition look SEN. RICHARD DURB that receives military equipment from the United States, that they make sure that they don't focus on civilian casualties, but only military targets, that they are careful in the proportionality that they use in using bombs of a certain size, for example, and that there would be a serious effort to take precautions to protect the innocent protect in that country.

These are th We should expect nothing less.

AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, Our colleague Lisa Desjardins, who I kn seen on Capitol Hill this week.

Yesterday, we saw senators ye several Republican senators walking out.

Emotions around the war are certainly high.

We know immigration is a white-hot issue.

And we have just learned, of course, Speaker -- at the end of the year.

I just want to ask you.

The climate on Cap SEN. RICHARD DURB And I will j has created a situation I have never seen before in all the time that I have served in Congress.

But there ar our friends.

I just want We had a much better meeting today.

I'm hopeful that, despite the he lp the Ukrainians and come out with a good result for the American people.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, do you believe there will be a deal to move that forward, aid for Ukraine forward before you leave for Christmas?

SEN. RICHARD DURB I wouldn't be in politics if I weren't.

And I believe that, if we wo AMNA NAWAZ: Senator Dick Durbin joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Senator, thank you.

Always good SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Thanks, Amna.

GEOFF BENNETT: This week marks the 25th anniversary of when astronauts first stepped onto the beginnings of a new International Space Station.

A quarter-of-a-century later, the station is now manned by seven members and has become an iconic and important part of space history.

It circles the globe almost every 90 minutes.

But the celebration is bittersweet, as the station is set to be I spoke earlier about it with our science correspondent, Miles O'Brien.

Miles, thanks for joining us.

What would you say are the main la ter?

MILES O'BRIE itself.

The fact tha in a partnership, along with Europe, Japan and Canada, about 15 nations in all, and managed to make this partnership work all this time is truly extraordinary, especially when you consider recent events in Ukraine and some concerns that the partnership would go sideways.

And yet, at the cosmonaut level, the engineer level, there are healthy and safe relationships, most importantly, for the International Space Station which have endured.

And there's a lesson in there somewhere, the fact that a peacetime project like multiple nations could last so long.

I can't think of anything quite like it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, beyond the yo u tell us about the science that has been conducted on board?

MILES O'BRIEN: It's been interesting.

Most of the science, frankly, is all about allowi for long periods of time.

So it's narrowly focused i However, there have been some spillovers into other areas.

And NASA likes to tout the space station as a way of solving problems here on Earth.

Just to give you an example, though, when you learn about osteoporosis on Earth, it has a lot to do with what astronauts encounter when they're in space.

Their bones become brittle and become weaker.

And as they return to Earth, they have a hard time rebuilding all of that.

So they have learned about how to manage that by learning how to keep their astron in space.

So there has bee The idea, though, that they would in zero gravity in a way that you could identify new ways to make drugs and cure cancer, that has not happened, however.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, 25 years And the ISS has these Russian modules on board, which I understand have had all sorts of technical issues, including some leaks.

So when is the International MI LES O'BRIEN: Yes, Geoff, it's a little long in tooth at th Some of the Russian modules have been leaking and there have been other problems along the way.

It's getting Right now, N The Russians say they want to get out a little bit sooner, but we are in the latter days of the space station era, at least the International Space Station era.

Maybe others will follow.

GEOFF BENNET or other commercial spacecraft in low-Earth orbit?

MILES O'BRIEN: Well, it's a little bit like what happened after the shuttle.

NASA turned to lean on private enterprise a little more, mostly with SpaceX.

In this case, NASA is seeking commercial entities to build space stations that NASA could use as a destination and pay to visit.

One of the companies, Axiom, based in Houston, which has a lot of old NAS players involved in it, actually has a docking port on the current International Space Station and aims to launch a module onto the space station to get it sort of up and running.

And then, when the space station goes off into the horizon, so to speak, off into the West, they would undock and begin building this commercial station.

The concern is, there will be some sort of gap once again, as there was after the shuttle retired, before the U.S. was able to get astronauts in space from U.S. soil.

GEOFF BENNETT: Do I have it right, Miles, that China will be the only nation to directly operate a space station by 2030?

What kind of problems does that create?

MILES O'BRIEN: It's interesting.

You think of the decision ba not partner with the Chinese on the space station.

The Chinese really wanted in.

You have got to wonder if that was th But, yes, China has a space station now.

It's been up and running, continuously manned Th e U.S. presumably will move into this commercial space station.

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin claims Russia will build another government-run space that it hopes to have in orbit by 2027.

Remains to be seen if that's going to be real.

But, regardless, I think it's important for that it can go to.

If a commercial player will do it, that'd be I think it's a pretty difficult business case, howe GEOFF BENNETT: And my last question, Miles, is a fairly pr How will NASA ensure that this giant space station doesn't become dangerou and reenter the atmosphere in an uncontrolled manner?

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, this is the Skylab scenario, 1979.

The first U.S. space station fell out of the sky in an uncontrolled manner because it was waiting for the space shuttle to come boosted and it wasn't ready to do that.

And so it came down.

Most of it landed in the Indian Oc Parts of it landed over Western Australi It was a very controversial thin while.

What they wi We will see.

Attach it to the Southern Pacific Ocean, where no one gets hurt, hopefully.

GEOFF BENNETT: Like a cosmic tow truck.

Miles O'Brien, thanks so much.

AMNA NAWAZ: Just over 15 percent of American adults have gotten the latest COVID booster.

Demand for the vaccine has dropped sharply since it was first introduced at the height of the pandemic.

That's partly because the Judy Woodruff spoke to public health experts about that government response.

It's part of her ongoing series America at a Crossroads.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In March of 2020, many Americans were united in their fear of vi rus, as people grappled with the images of overwhelmed hospitals and death abroad and in the U.S. WOMAN: Hopeful PROTESTER: We, the people, will not comply.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But public opinion quickly splintered orders to slow the spread of the virus.

PROTESTER: It should be a choice, not a mandat JUDY WOODRUFF: People took to the streets to p of business closures, school shutdowns and mask mandates across the country.

PROTESTER: This is a tool to keep us at home and on house arrest.

PROTESTER: My business is being decimated as w PROTESTER: The risk of spread in schools is low and children is high.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Leaders, recommendations on masking and other prevention methods.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presid The CDC is a public health measure.

This is voluntary.

I don't think I'm going to be doing it.

JAY BOSE, Patient, W in the current medical system.

JUDY WOODRUFF: For Clara and Jay Bose, the JA Y BOSE: We were in Nevada at that time.

The kids are being forced to wear a And I started looking at, is there any science behind tha JUDY WOODRUFF: They joined hundreds of thousands of other Ame during the pandemic drawn by the sunny weather and the state's looser COVID restrictions.

It was in sharp contrast to the pandemic tension among their extended family.

CLARA BOSE, Patient, We the People Health and Wellness Center: We haven't lost any relationships over it, but we definitely had some tension.

JAY BOSE: The relationships were strong.

My younger brother, for example, wor He thinks I'm completely nuts.

(LAUGHTER) JAY BOSE: An another.

But he has n JUDY WOODRUFF: It soon became difficult to separate the polit to Dr. Joshua Sharfstein of Johns Hopkins.

He has worked with the state of Maryland on public health recommendations.

DR. JOSHUA SHARF sort of like a match like masks and people who were upset about a particular action early in the pandemic.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And that had deadly consequences, according to Dr. Peter Hotez of Baylor College of Medicine.

He researched the hu Deadly Rise of Anti-Science."

DR. PETER HOTEZ, states where people widely accepted vaccines and states where people did not widely accept vaccines.

Well, it's m vaccines after vaccines were widely available.

JUDY WOODRUFF: A poll out this September showed at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, compared with 66 percent of Republican voters.

And Democrats were far more likely to get the latest booster.

And multiple studies show more Republican strongholds that resisted public health measures and vaccinations fared worse in terms of infection and mortality rates.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX News Anchor: Our big pharma overlords have decided that we need to get rid of these vaccines before they expire.

MAN: Why do we need an experiment have a 99.997 percent chance of surviving?

PROTESTER: No forced COVID vaccines for adults or children.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Dr. Hotez points to sharpen rhetoric in the summer of 2021, shortly before the vaccines were approved for younger children, as a turning point.

TUCKER CARLSON, Former FOX News Anchor: If the vaccine is effective, there is no for people who have received the vaccine to So maybe it doesn't work, and they're simply not telling you that.

DR. PETER HOTEZ: with FOX News and other news outlets.

It was a predatory, organized, and deliberate disinformation campaign that convinced Americans that the vaccines didn't work or weren't safe, and they believed it, and they paid for it with their lives.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS these new COVID mRNA... JUDY WOODRUFF: Just three months ago, Florida Joseph Ladapo, recommended against the booster for healthy people under age 65.

Their guidance directly contradi ts CDC recommendations, but didn't go far enough for Vic Mellor, a former Marine, businessman, and Trump who financed the We the People Clinic in Sarasota County.

He is agains Mellor and his staff are leading the charge in what they call the skeptical of the medical establishment and their recommendations on COVID-19 prevention and treatment methods.

They also promote non-tradit therapy and drugs like ivermectin, which is not approved to treat COVID.

All the research that's gone into the vaccines, you still believe that it's harmful?

VIC MELLOR, Co-Founder, We the People Health and Wellness Center: Absolutely harmful, yes.

I don't believe their research at all.

JUDY WOODRUFF: His skepticism goes beyond COVID.

In the same building that houses the clinic, he set up a political operatio a guard the vote war room.

He says it will help monitor potential election VI C MELLOR: But it's going to be a training program for law enforcement and poll workers and precinct workers to identify when something is -- when a law is being broken.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Down the hall, a podcast studio for Michael Flynn, who denies the results of the 2020 election.

He served as which Mr. Trump then pardoned him for.

Mellor told me, while there were no federal mandates r mandates and unofficial mandates by employers or doctor's offices threatened people's freedom to make their own medical decisions.

CLARA BOSE: The nurse was so caring.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Clara and Jay Bose sense of relief when they found the clinic and the alternative it offers to the government's messaging.

CLARA BOSE: in it.

JAY BOSE: No let you get COVID, you don't transmit if you get the shot... CLARA BOSE: And if you care about your mom, you will get it.

JAY BOSE: ... you don't die if yo a lot of -- it felt like... CLARA BOSE: JAY BOSE: Ye JUDY WOODRUF JAY BOSE: We did not get the COVID vaccine shots for our kids or for ourselves.

And we had COVID, two days, three days of some coughing and like a flu.

(CROSSTALK) JAY BOSE: An JUDY WOODRUF their doubts about the vaccine.

DR. RENATA MOON, vaccines for my whole career.

But as time went on, I was crunch And it became clear to me from the data that we had from our government that in fection really wasn't a threat to our nation's children in terms of fatalities.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Just under 1,900 children have died from COVID in the U.S. since the pandemic began.

But for this mRNA vaccine, D side effects, including inflammation of the heart muscle, or myocarditis.

The Centers for Disease Control maintains it is a very rare occurrence, that, in fact, cases occurring after vaccination have generally been less severe than myocarditis caused by a viral COVID infection.

The CDC adds that it and the Food and Drug an d evaluate reports of myocarditis.

But Dr.

Moon says, when she raised these concerns, where she previously practiced.

DR. RENATA MOON: dare question anything related to COVID, if you dare color allowed, what the main narrative is, then you will be punished, right?

And this is a dangerous place for us to be right now in America with this idea that we can't question anything and that our own physicians can't question what they're seeing right in front of their eyes.

JUDY WOODRUF differently that would have changed the outcome here?

DR. JOSHUA SHARF transparency about what's being considered and an open discussion of the pros and cons.

And, oftentimes, I think public health officials, and not just public health officials, but also elected officials, just announce things.

Like, today, here's what we're going to do.

If, instead, you say, here's what we're thi people respond to that by appreciating the bind that government is in.

There's often no perfect answer.

Personally, I think one misstep JUDY WOODRUFF: Dr. Joshua Sharfstein said that this initial lack of transparency and conflicting advice may have contributed to the skepticism of the vaccines.

In a recent move toward greater transparency, an open difference of views has arisen among scientists over at what age otherwise healthy individuals need the latest COVID vaccine shot, with the CDC recommending it for everyone 6 months of age and up, while several European countries, the World Health Organization, and a prominent U.S. pediatrician say it's not necessary for young people.

For his part, Dr. Peter Hotez worries that our experience w and the ongoing questioning and even threatening of scientists and public health officials will thwart the U.S. response to the next health emergency.

DR. PETER HOTEZ: And the evidence for that is, if you look at the percentage of bivalent booster last September in 2022, when it was made available, only about 20 percent of eligible Americans took it.

And in terms of this new annual immunization, So I'm really concerned we're going to start the next pandemic with two strikes.

So I think it's going to be much tougher now to convince Americans to take vaccines because of the damage done from this predatory anti-vaccine campaign.

JUDY WOODRUFF: One more potential divide in an already divided nation.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Baltimore, Maryland, and Sarasota County, Florida.

GEOFF BENNETT: White evangelical voters helped Donald Trump win t largely stuck by him again in 2020.

In his new book, Tim Alberta sought to find out why, whe with basic Christian values.

He approaches the topic as a journalist and Ti m's father was a pastor, and he says the evangelical church was his home, which offered an up-close look at the ways in which GOP politics are transforming and fracturing the evangelical church.

The book is titled "The King Age of Extremism."

I asked Tim about a sear elder admonished him for not fully embracing Donald Trump as God's chosen leader.

TIM ALBERTA, Author, "The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism": Wel surreal moment, having just buried my father -- you're in this state of mourning and of shock, and not sure, is this even real?

And then you're reading this.

And I think what it revealed mo I, the son of the senior pastor who was here for 25 years leading this congregation, if I, who grew up here -- these people have known me since I was 5 years old -- if I could be treated this way, if I could be regarded as a member of the deep state, as an enemy of the church, as an apostate, if I could be treated that way, then how are we treating those outside the church?

How are we engaging with the culture, GEOFF BENNETT: Well, what is it about Donald Trump that has completely transformed and reconditioned the white evangelical expectation of what a political leader should be?

I will tell you, in my own reporting, I have talked to evangelical Trump supporters who have compared him to consequential biblical figures like David, Cyrus, Solomon to make the point that he is someone, in their view, who can effect God's will without having to manifest any Christian values whatsoever.

TIM ALBERTA: Yes, yes.

And I have h And it's interesting.

Obviously, when Donald Trump first came along he was mocked widely by evangelicals when he made his famous 2 Corinthians gaffe when he was speaking at Liberty University at the beginning of 2016.

It was pounced on by a lot of leading evangelicals who are now some of his An d you ask yourself, well, how did he go from being a figure of suspicion and an outsider, and somebody who was almost a punchline to being a champion for these people?

And I think much of the answer to that, Geoff, is rooted in what you are describing.

You said white evangelical.

And I think it's important t in America, they are now losing status in ways that they have never seen before, that, if you look, just statistically and demographically, 50 years ago, during the heyday of the Moral Majority, this was fundamentally a different country then than it is today.

We are looking at decades-long downward trajectories in terms of the white percentage of the country, the percentage of the country that identifies as Christian, that identifies as churchgoing.

And there is a sense of impending doom for a lot of these people, that the government is coming for them, that Christianity is in the crosshairs, and that we need to fight back.

And, in some And because he's not a Christian, he's not beholden to Christian values, and, therefore, it makes him almost this mercenary who's willing to fight on behalf of this beleaguered population who feels under siege, and they have turned to someone like Donald Trump to do the dirty work for them.

GEOFF BENNET in a unique covenant with God?

What do Christian nationalists want that is differen engagement with politics?

TIM ALBERTA: Yes, I think, in many ways, Ch nation that we inherited from the founders, that it was an explicitly Christian nation, not just a nation informed by Judeo-Christian principles and values, but explicitly formed to be a Christian nation, that that has to be recovered, that it has to be restored.

And we are talking in some sense here about the T-word, theocracy.

I mean, there are people in this movement, and, I would add, peop and influence in the Republican Party, people who are close to former President Donald Trump, who would certainly be advising him in a second term, who have no qualms talking about the idea of essentially demolishing the wall between church and state and attempting to, if not introduce Christianity as state religion in a concrete, official, formal way, at the very least to promote Christianity as state religion in ways.

You just heard Donald Trump a couple of weeks ago on the campaign trail say, he's thinking about not letting any more non-Christian migrants into the country, no Jews, no Mu Hindus, no atheists.

If you're go And that is, I think very explicitly, some of the ways in which these ab out how they recover the America that they once knew.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, when Donald Trump says he wouldn't be a dic for day one, what he said earlier this week in that televised town hall with Sean Hann what do his evangelical supporters hear?

TIM ALBERTA: It's another great question, I mean, a dog whistle there.

I think what Trump is speaking to when he talks about how the Christian church is under siege and so is he, when he talks to these evangelical supporters of his and says, really, they, the deep state, the liberals, the secularists, they're coming after you, but first they have to get through me, and that's why I'm being charged with all these indictments.

That's why they're trying to take me down, is so that t So when he pitches himself as a strongman, as a would-be authoritarian, I think in m ways what these people hear is, well, desperate times call for desperate measures, right?

In other words -- and there's some polling to back this up.

There's some pretty good social science just the that, for many white conservative evangelicals who are supportive of embrace a sort of lurch toward authoritarianism if it meant preserving what they see as a Christian America, rather than lose in a liberal democratic fashion.

For a lot of his supporters in that base, they're hearing it and saying, good, it's about time.

GEOFF BENNET TIM ALBERTA: The secular public used t And now they have a very negative view, and that creates a barrier to entry into the church for those of us who are trying to reach out to bring people in and try to tell them about the love of God, and it's become very difficult to do so.

GEOFF BENNETT: The book is "The Kingdom, the Power, and the G in an Age of Extremism."

Its author is Tim Alberta.

Tim, thanks again for coming in TIM ALBERTA: Thank you so much for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: Norman Lear, the groundbreaking TV producer and writer, has died at the age of 101.

He revolutionized prime-time th e '70s and '80s, including "All in the Family," "The Jeffersons," "Maude," and more.

And he featured political and social issues of the day in a way not done before.

Jeffrey Brown has a look back at his legacy for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

(SINGING) JEFFREY BROW CARROLL O'CONNOR, Actor: I didn't have no million people out there marching and protesting to get me my job.

JEAN STAPLETON (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROW dealing with hot-button issues.

ROB REINER, Actor and Director: What God?

JEFFREY BROW CARROLL O'CONNOR: What did you mean by, "What RO B REINER: We just don't see any evidence of God That's all.

SALLY STRUTH CARROLL O'CONNOR: "That's NO RMAN LEAR, Screenwriter an JEFFREY BROWN: In a 2014 interview, Norman Lear told me the crass co Bunker, played by Carroll O'Connor, was inspired by his own father.

NORMAN LEAR: My dad called me a meathead dead from the neck up.

CARROLL O'CONNOR: I am tuning you out, meathead.

NORMAN LEAR: And he used to yell at me that I was th And I would say, why would you put down a race of people to call me lazy?

JEFFREY BROWN: Their shows addressed race, feminism, even, in "Maude," abortion.

ADRIENNE BARBEAU, Actress: There's only one sensible way out of this.

You don't have to have the baby.

BEA ARTHUR, Actress: Well, what (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROW to 50 million viewers a week.

NORMAN LEAR: The very first "All in the Fa JEFFREY BROWN: And Lear fought for his vision.

He told me how the network wanted to cut a line in the very fir the Family" that hinted at his daughter, Gloria, and husband, Michael, played by Sally Struthers and Rob Reiner...

ROB REINER: JEFFREY BROW CARROLL O'CONNOR: 11:10 on a Sunday morning.

JEFFREY BROWN: But Lear didn't back down.

NORMAN LEAR: I saw very clearly in that instan silly little battle, I would never win another one.

JEFFREY BROWN: For 11 consecutive years, at least one of Norman Lear's shows prime-time's top 10.

In 1980, he founded the nonprofit of the Christian right in the Moral Majority movement.

Lear received many honors and awards throughout his life, including two Peabodys, the Medal of Arts, and, in 2017, a Kennedy Center Honor for lifetime artistic achievement.

That same year, he offered a Brief But Spectacular take on the "NewsHour," recalling how he dealt with having eight shows at once on the air at the height of his career.

NORMAN LEAR: There is stress, and there is joyful stress.

The stress I was under was altogether joyful.

It ended with 240 live people sitting in an audience laughing.

Go beat that.

It all added tim JEFFREY BROWN: Norman Lear passed away in his surrounded by his family.

And joining us now is Rob Reiner, of course, one of the stars of "All in the Family."

He would go on to act in films such as "Sleepless in Seattle" and "The Wolf of Wall Street," and gained further prominence as a director of such films as "This Is Spinal Tap" and "A Few Good Men."

Rob Reiner, so And, first, our condolences at the loss We talk now, looking back, at how everything changed at a certain moment.

You were there at that moment.

Did it feel like everything was RO B REINER: Well, no.

We were -- we had a show that we thought w after three episodes or something.

I don't know.

CBS put it on with a big disclaimer, saying We don't want to have anything to do with it.

We don't eve But if you want to watch it, watch it.

We thought it would la And then, over the time, it caught on.

And people started watching it.

And it became the biggest show on television JEFFREY BROWN: What did Norman Lear have that allowed him to do what he did, li fe into the sitcom format?

ROB REINER: He had -- can I say this on PBS?

He had balls.

(LAUGHTER) ROB REINER: I mean, you're talking about a man who flew 57 bombing missions over N World War II.

So, the fights that he had with He had his convictions.

He had his ideas.

And he was going t And he did it.

He did it in And he got laughs at the sam We had Mike and Archie fighting about ev Many of them are still relevant today, racism and guns and sexuality and all of that.

But he did it with humor and with grace.

And I'm going to miss him terribly.

This has been a very hard day for me.

And I got to say, to be honest, th e press, because it keeps me from crying, to be honest with you.

He was like a second father to me.

I was very lucky to have him and my d And I got a lot from both of them.

But, from Norman, I got th fame, and you could do something good with it.

And I took that to heart, and I have done things with my celebrity that I probably wouldn't have done it had I not had that path.

And I got to say, this -- it's so strange to me.

You had a guest on right before, Tim Alberta, who talks about... JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

ROB REINER: JEFFREY BROW Go ahead.

We had Tim A ROB REINER: are seeing the rise of Christian nationalism.

And I have just finished the documentary called of Christian nationalism.

And that's the very thing that Way.

JEFFREY BROW ROB REINER: This is the Constitution.

It's in the Co It's not -- there's no argument about the separation of church and state.

We fought so that we could have religious freedom in this country or no religion at all.

JEFFREY BROW ROB REINER: JEFFREY BROWN: Yes ROB REINER: what we all should be striving for.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, Rob Re I did want to ask you about, he did -- this was of a his politics, his social advocacy, but also entertaining people.

Very briefly, how do you see his legacy?

ROB REINER: His legacy will be, not We were on television at a time when there was only 200 million people in the country, and there were 40, 45 million people having a shared experience.

You couldn't tape it.

You had to watch it And so we put these issues out th Now that discussion has gone away.

We're all in these silos.

We don't talk to each other, and for, is against fascism and to preserve democracy.

And we see this fascism starting to creep back in.

And, this election, we're going -- Norman would want me to be saying this, which, is if you want fascism, you vote for Trump.

If you want democracy, you will vote for Biden.

It's that simple, and it's that real.

JEFFREY BROWN: All right, combining all these things Rob Reiner on the life and legacy of Norman Lear, thank you very much.

ROB REINER: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: Norman Lear was one of the giants What a life.

AMNA NAWAZ: Our thoughts GEOFF BENNETT: And on stage for tonight's fourth GOP debate in Alabama.

That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

AMNA NAWAZ: And join us agai Liz Cheney.

And that is the "NewsH I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNET Thanks for s with us.