(upbeat music) Produced by women, about women.

Powerful Women: Let's Talk is a series of interviews with women who are trailblazers and have helped shape our world; transforming who we are and how we live.

- It all started with an interest in math and science, thanks to the Grand Rapids Public School Education.

Dr. Keli Christopher has taken that interest to today as founder and Executive Director of STEM Greenhouse.

Let's talk about this journey on this edition of Powerful Women: Let's talk.

Hello, powerful woman.

- Hi, how are you doing?

(Shelley laughs) - I'm doing fine, good that you are here, Dr. Keli Christopher with one L, and of course, we are here to talk a bit about your journey.

I'm gonna get your day job out of the way.

- Sure.

- STEM Greenhouse, what is this all about?

- Well, STEM Greenhouse, we're all about preparing children of color for careers in science, technology, engineering, and math, and one of the things that really is unique about our organization is that we understand that a foundation in math and science are really critical to access STEM careers.

You know, you can't just do robotics and somehow, you know, it's okay if you don't have science, or have a day of coding, but you're not proficient in math.

So we wanna make sure the students we work with have those foundational math and science skills to be successful.

- Great, we'll get back to that.

But get me back to that young Keli, the memories of liking math and science, so, take me there.

- Oh, I don't really have memories of liking math and science, surprisingly.

When I was growing up, I didn't like math, that was the thing.

I was ashamed of my math ability, and I didn't know any women who liked math, and so I just thought that math wasn't for me.

I thought I would probably have a career as a writer, you know, something in journalism, or perhaps become a teacher, which I did.

you know, I am an educator, but when I got to middle school, my middle school counselor put me in honors math.

Now, I was an honors, like, English student.

I don't know if it was just the scheduling, it worked out better you be in honors English and honors math.

And I was thinking, "I am not a good math student."

I was so afraid, and I tried to get out of it.

- I was gonna say, did you share that?

- I told the counselor I didn't want to take it.

She was like, "Oh, just give it a try."

I went home, told my mom, "I do not want to take honors math."

I mean, I was crying.

I was like, "Mom, I can't do it."

She called, tried to get me out of it.

The counselor said, "Just try it for one semester."

And so since I thought, "Okay, I'm stuck in this, you know, thing, and I've never been good at math," but I really just started to work hard and try.

And also, math changes as you get older, when you start getting into algebra versus when math is just about memorization, and if you can't quickly recall that mental math, those multiplication tables, then you just feel like you're horrible at math.

But I really did enjoy more the thinking type of math, and, like, I just became a really good student.

I just started becoming an excellent student, and I started getting all As, and even an A-plus in math, - Wow!

- which just seemed crazy for me.

But the reality was I just had never been challenged, I had never really tried hard, I had given up on math in the third grade, and so when I went to high school, at that point, I had seen myself transform, and then I just decided I was, you know, I had additional people telling me, you know, you can get all A's in school.

And I thought, "Oh, that's a thing?

You could try to have all As?"

And so (chuckles) that's what I did, and I became the valedictorian of my high school.

I graduated from Ottawa Hills High School.

- Oh, my gosh!

- Yep, yep.

But I think a lot of this journey is really simply because there was someone in my life who just wouldn't accept mediocrity, wouldn't just say, "Okay, well, you don't like math?

Okay, we'll just never challenge you in your life."

You know (chuckles) they're like, "Sorry, you're gonna try it, just try it."

And I'm so glad that she did, and that's really why I'm even here.

- Hmm, yes.

So what happened after high school?

- Well, I wanted to... Well, first, let me say even though I was a straight A student, excellent in math and science, I would go to local engineering companies, and I, you know, I didn't, it didn't seem like a field that I wanted to be in.

I didn't really think about it back then, but the reality is just that, like, I did not wanna grow up to be a 50-year-old white man, so seeing all these white male spaces, it didn't seem like a place that was welcoming to me.

When I finally decided to go into engineering, it was because I had a friend who was a year older than me, Black female, and she had gone into engineering.

And so I said, "Well, let me try this engineering thing out," you know, and sometimes it takes that as well.

That's why STEM Greenhouse is successful, because we want students to see people of color, people that look like them, in these fields, and then it makes you feel like, "Okay, yes, this is for me."

And so I went to, well, I went to North Carolina and T State University, which is a historically Black college in Greensboro, North Carolina, for my undergraduate degree, and then I went to the University of Illinois for my Master's degree and Ph.D, both in Agricultural Engineering, undergrad and graduate school, and at University of Illinois, of course, there were no other, there had never been a Black person to get a Ph.D in Agricultural Engineering there, so these spaces were not particularly welcoming, and it takes a certain amount of confidence to pursue a career in a space where nobody looks like you, but that also, it helps you build strengths in some areas.

Like, I know now (chuckles), you know, because I did that, I really don't feel like there's anything I can't do.

It prepares you in ways that you don't expect.

I mentioned this one time in a post on LinkedIn that, you know, I didn't realize that getting that Ph.D, what I was really exercising was just that muscle of just working hard, excelling, despite obstacles, despite social, you know, discouragement to being socially out of place.

Those things were important.

And so now I can be in spaces, and that doesn't bother me, because I just had, you know, I've had so much racism and stuff that I've experienced already, that at this point, I'm not saying I'm an expert at it, but I've done enough that I've overcome that it's not as big of a deal.

- And yet the third Black woman to receive your Ph.D in Agricultural Engineering in the world.

Does you still hold - Yeah, - that title?

- that's right; well, I mean, I was the third one, so there's people that come after me, you know, there was the first one.

I remember when I was an undergrad, there was one person, one Black female from the Caribbean, who had a Ph.D in Ag Engineering, no American women, African American women, at that time, and so when you're in, you know, when you're always the only one, you know, and many times there's no African American males either, and there weren't a lot of people coming up behind me.

Like, there was no... You know, I think the University of Illinois just got their second Black person to get a Ph.D, and I got mine, you know, almost 20 years ago.

So that just shows you that these spaces are not really changing.

We're not doing enough to address those systems that prevent people of color from being successful in these fields.

- And let me follow up with that, and I'm quoting you, "Because of these experiences, I promised that one day I would try to personally make it easier for students of color to succeed, pursue, feel supported in STEM, and that's why we're here."

- That's exactly right (laughs).

You know, I had worked as an engineer, and I had seen STEM programming going on in the community and in just the world in general, and I just thought to myself, "Wow, I don't really see how this is gonna help," you know (laughs).

You know, oftentimes, the people who are developing these programs, either they're not a person of color, they don't really have that background, understand what it's like to be a person of color in these spaces, or they might be a person of color, but they don't have any background in engineering.

How can you create, you know, a program when you don't really know as, you know, as an educator perhaps, as a teacher, what is required, what level of skill is necessary to be successful?

So I definitely can bring something to that space, having lived experience that so few people have, and that's really what has made, you know, STEM Greenhouse successful.

- You also say relationships are as important as curriculum in urban K through 12.

Expand here.

- I have a YouTube channel, and I have this one video, and I just posted it recently, it is a YouTube video of students just dancing, okay, and what they wanna be when they grow up.

It has nothing to do with STEM, okay (laughs), but we're celebrating their culture, they're getting a feeling of belonging.

That's more than half of the battle, you know, this idea.

Sometimes those people who want to promote STEM to children, they want to say, "Oh, STEM is easy, STEM is fun."

It is, it's fun sometimes, but we want them to work hard, but we want them to know that you can work hard, but you can have fun, you can be in a space where you're cared about and loved among your friends, and that's really one of the privileges a lot of white students have always had is that they've been able to be in environments where there's lots of white people doing STEM, and that's just normal to them.

Well, it has to be normal for our kids, too, for them to be successful.

You know, nobody wants to be that only little, you know, chocolate chip in the vat of vanilla, you know, it's does, it's just not a comfortable space.

And so as we build relationships with students, they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

And believe me, they're 12, 13 years old, okay?

They (chuckles)- - They're doing life, right?

- Right, they're doing life, (Shelley laughs) but just imagine yourself at that age.

You know, what is gonna make you come after school twice a week for a whole school year to learn math and science when you've already been in school all day?

You know, at some point, when I was doing this program, I realized they were coming because of me not because they just, you know, were so focused on their future, but they knew that I cared about them, and I had an expectation for them to be successful, so...

I'm Dr. Keli Christopher, and it's my pleasure to introduce you to the future leaders of our community, the 2021 Sankofa STEM Academy students.

(energetic music) (energetic music continues) - Well, like I said, the key is really just making sure that students understand that you care about them, you know, that I don't say, "Okay, I'm only gonna work with the smart students, or only the students who are struggling."

We want to take you from wherever you are and just help you go further in life.

That's just, it's pretty simple.

If they hear over and over again, "You can really be whatever you want to be, you're not limited to what you see around you," they just have to continuously see this.

and that's why it's called the STEM Greenhouse.

You know, I didn't say it's gonna be the STEM Week, you know, or the STEM Day of Coding.

- Greenhouse, that's right, Things bloom, - Right, - things start with seedlings.

- but it takes time.

You know, we have to cultivate environments where kids want to learn, so I'm not gonna create a space where they're uncomfortable, I'm not gonna create a space where they're not loved.

That's the environment that you have to... And then you need to have time.

You don't just throw seeds in the air, and just, like, "Good luck," you know.

"We'll give a kid a week of STEM camp and expect them to be an engineer."

You know, you're 12 years old, somebody is going to have to walk you, walk with you.

It's just like having a personal trainer versus, you know, going to a one-week bootcamp, you know, you need, sometimes you need that person saying, "Come on, you can do it," year after year, day after day.

That's what helps anybody become successful, really.

So I'm just applying, really, it's common sense, but I have found that common sense is sort of revolutionary.

Like nobody, you know, it's like, "Whoo, we are going to, you know, help kids day by day.

Like, they're not gonna become an engineer after one day of coding, and that's hard, that's a hard concept for someone to grasp, especially in the schools that we're in, because there's no science teachers in these schools.

These are middle schools.

Our community doesn't have enough science teachers for all of its students, and generally, it's the Black and brown students that don't get those science teachers.

They're in middle school, they don't have a science teacher.

Only 5% of Black 11th graders in Kent County are proficient in math.

We are not gonna have a STEM pipeline at all, let alone a diverse STEM pipeline, because children of color are starting to outnumber white children in America's schools.

So we are gonna have to address this problem.

All students are gonna have to have an opportunity to learn.

And this is for everyone's benefit.

You know, I often tell companies, "We're not doing this just for the kids because it's just and it's the right thing to do.

This is a sustainability plan.

There's no other people that...

These are the people that are going to have the jobs, so if you're not investing in their education, you won't have anybody to hire."

And they're already experiencing that.

So many companies cannot find anybody to hire, let alone a person of color.

So if we are living a community that doesn't have enough science teachers for its students and we're not doing anything about it, but we expect, for tomorrow, to have all the doctors, and the nurses, and the engineers, and, we are just fooling ourselves.

- Solution would be?

- Part of the solution is organizations like the STEM Greenhouse, because, you know, our track record is very, it's just been very successful, you know.

The students in our afterschool program, they have four times more growth in math than students in other STEM programs.

The students in our Summer Academy, the average student grows five, I mean, two grade levels in five weeks in their math computations.

So that's amazing amounts of results.

I shouldn't even have to beg for money, but I do (laughs).

- Yeah, but there's only one Dr. Keli Christopher (Keli laughs) So how do we expand it to... - Well, it's not, like I said, it's not rocket science.

Part of it is diversity.

Research has shown that all children learn best from someone who's demographically similar to them, so a white female will learn best from a white female teacher, a Black male will learn best from a Black male teacher.

85% of the teachers in the schools are white female, so it's not really surprising that Black males are our most underperforming group.

That is demographically a very dissimilar, you know, teaching profession.

So if I have... You know, in my Summer Academy, we have five Black male teachers.

Somehow, miraculously, everybody is learning, but partially, it's because of that intentionality with around getting staff that looks like the students that we serve, and that has, you know, then we've been very successful with that.

- Your 17-year-old know how passionate his mom is?

(Keli laughs) - Well, my son says, "Mom," you know, "you're always so extra.

Like, you always have to just go."

You know, he thinks I just do too much, you know what I'm saying?

(laughs) But, yeah, so he gets it.

It's a little bit overwhelming for my kids.

They're, you know, I have a 17-year-old, and I have a 13-year-old daughter, and she wants to be an engineer one day, an imagineer, 'cause she's a Disney fan too, and so imagineers are the engineers that work for Disney World, and we're Disney fans.

- Yeah, I wanna get to some fun facts.

(Keli laughs) Goodness gracious, you are a Disney World fan.

Disney Villains is your favorite, so you can get away (laughs).

(Keli laughs) - Yeah, I mean, I really like Disney Villains, and I, you know, there's...

I'm not alone.

In addition, you know, I just kinda lean towards, I don't know what that is, like in Harry Potter, I'm, you know, into that too, and I'm in Slytherin House, which is sort of the evil.

It's a weird thing, it's a...

But I think there's part of me that is very rebellious, 'cause to be quite honest, in the spaces that I'm in, I'm a disruptor, I'm an agitator, not everybody likes me.

I kinda like it like that.

So I think I identify sometimes with villains.

Not that I'm evil, but just that, you know, I don't mind not being liked.

And that's one of the difficult things with leadership is that you have to, one, you know, sometimes you have to get comfortable with not pleasing everybody, and in my case, you know, I consider myself an advocate for children, and some people are gonna like what I say and some aren't.

- The train is moving.

Hey, you danced, dancing was the first thing you ever taught.

(Keli laughs) What's this mean?

- Well, I started teaching dance when I was, maybe, in the 11th grade, and I was taking dance classes, you know, tap, jazz, ballet, but I was especially a good tap dancer.

But even now, I dance.

And so, you know, like I said in my YouTube channel, you know, I had the students dancing, I just... We recorded some additional videos recently, and again, there's a challenge, you know, like a TikTok dance challenge, and so me and the kids were doing that.

I just incorporate that into a lot of the work that I do because I like dancing, and it helps me recruit students, everything.

So yeah, I taught dance at the, as, like, a volunteer for 4-H when I was in high school.

- Oh, yeah.

- And I remember that was, also was my first opportunity to do fundraising, and I guess it was a little bit of a nonprofit, because I was teaching, I was a volunteer dance teacher at, like, a community center, and I wanted the kids to have a regular recital like other little kids when they take dance lessons, but they don't have costumes and things like that, so I had to raise money for the costumes, and I would try to take them to a performance, Broadway performances, and things like that so they could see dancers.

It was just...

I mean, for someone who's in 11th or 12th grade, that's quite a bit, and when I look back on it, I'm like, "Wow!"

- Well, no stranger, no wonder you are who you are now.

(Keli laughs) You really like the movies.

What movies - Well, I just like - do you suggest (indistinct) movies in general.

I don't want, I'm not a, like, a action-adventure type of person, I don't wanna pay anybody to raise my blood pressure, but generally, just dramas.

I do like foreign films.

I really got into that when I was in graduate school, watching a lot of foreign films, and Chinese movies, especially.

But yeah, so I just, you know, I'm just kind of a movie fan.

- Yeah, yeah, keeping you normal.

- Yup.

- How important are the awards that you've received?

And I'm leading the question.

I hope you're going to say that you don't put your Giants Award in a box and never see it again.

You've earned these.

- Well, you know, initially, when I started receiving some awards, I thought, "Wow!"

you know.

something like the Giants Awards is a really big deal in our community, and I thought, "Am I, you know, am I at the Giants Award level?"

But I'm starting to, I'm starting to kinda know my worth, I guess you could say, in a way that I maybe didn't know back then, the things I do, the risks that I take.

There have been some risky things, things that, professionally, people have advised me not to do because they were afraid that I would insult or hurt someone's feelings or something, and I did it anyway, and so (chuckles) now I'm beginning to think, "Okay, I am a little bit (chuckles), I am out there a little bit, willing to do some things that other people aren't willing to do."

And these awards, honestly, it's more of a, it's humbling, it is... You know, you don't do this work for recognition, but when someone recognizes you...

I just won an award on Monday from the Urban League and it's- - And that award was?

- That's the Nolan Groce Business Leadership Award, yup, and that, you know, that meant a lot, because again, it shows that people are, they recognize, they see what you're doing.

That's basically what it's saying is, "I see you, I see that you're trying, this effort that you're making on behalf of the children in our community."

- And that it's working, - Yeah, yeah, that there's some, there's movement there.

People see the results.

- So what's next for STEM Greenhouse?

- (chuckles) Well, STEM Greenhouse is a small organization, but it's a big idea, you know, it's really ready to go to another level.

We now have a high school program that we're starting at Central High School in Grand Rapids Public Schools, we have elementary school programming, we teach science during the day in two middle schools to all the sixth- seventh- and eighth-graders at two schools because they deserve to have a science class, and, you know, they deserve to have dissections and use microscopes, just like any other middle school student.

And so, you know, it's really important for us.

We need to be in all of those schools, not just two schools, but all the schools that don't have a science teacher, you know, we really need to be there.

So there's a lot of potential for growth, there's a lot of kids in our community that need this support.

And, you know, I'm just always looking for partners, people to come alongside that want to see a more equitable future for our children.

I mean, it's actually gotten worse.

I was interviewed for a documentary about educating Black boys, and Spectrum Health kind of, they're supporters of my Summer Academy, and the reason that I was in this documentary is because there are fewer Black males in medical school now than in the 1970s.

You know, we're going backwards as a society in terms of how we're preparing children of color for the future, and yet these are the children, like, they're the majority, children of color are going to be the majority of people very, very soon, so we're just doing ourself a disservice if we're not able to give them the quality of education they deserve.

- So find Keli Christopher ASAP to see how we can help.

(Keli laughs) You bet on that.

What motto do you leave us with?

What's a take-home message for me?

- Well, you know, I guess this is a motto, this is a family motto, and this motto came from my grandmother's aunt, okay, and she would say, "I cover all the ground I stand on."

And you have to, like, move your hand, you have to say, "I cover all the ground that I stand on."

And what that really means is that I'm not less than anyone.

You know, any time I meet someone, I never go into it intimidated.

You know, I am in the nonprofit space, my job is to beg, but I never come in with a beggar's attitude, you know.

I thought it was kind of interesting that, you know, I'm on the, this is for powerful women, and I'm thinking, "I have come into so many spaces where I really did not have the power," but power is a mindset, you know what I mean?

My mind was I had the power, but the reality is I didn't have the money.

I mean, I'm always asking for resources and things like that, but I don't feel like I'm lesser because of that.

I don't feel, you know, I feel like a wise person would partner with me, would help me with this cause because the work is so great, you know.

And so like I said, you know, every room I walk into, it's like, I cover all the ground I stand on.

That's my motto.

- Well, you've brightened up this room, that's for sure.

STEM Greenhouse, under your leadership, keep up the great work Dr. Keli Christopher.

- Thank you so much.