>> HELLO, EVERYONE WELCOME TO AMANPOUR.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

IRANIANS FLEE THE CAPITAL AFTER A WARNING FROM TRUMP AND MORE ISRAELI STRIKES ON RUN.

THE HEAD OF THE ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY HOW CLOSE WITH THE COUNTRY TO BREAKING OUT.

THEN, HOW FAR IS HE WAS WILLING TO GO?

WILL IT JOIN ISRAEL'S WAR ON HARDENED NUCLEAR SITES.

THE FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER WITH HOW THE ADMINISTRATION IT SERVED GOT A NEW GLITTER.

AMERICANS GRAPPLE WITH POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS LIKE THE KILLING OF A MINNESOTA LAWMAKER, THE NEWLY LISTED CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRS MEMORIES OF HIS FRIEND, MICHELLE MARTIN, AND DISCUSSES THE RECENT TURMOIL AT THE DNC.

> >> -- > >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

NEW WARNINGS POSTED ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY PRESIDENTS TRUMP AGAINST THE SO-CALLED IRANIAN SUPREME LEADER.

TRUMP CALLS HIM AN EASY TARGET AND SAID AMERICA'S PATIENTS IS WEARING THIN.

HE ALSO CALLS FOR UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER ADDING TO THE FEARS OF IRANIANS WHO ARE TRYING TO LEAVE THE CAPITAL AS TRUMP TOLD ALL 10 MILLION TO FLEE.

MEANWHILE --ITS MILITARY AND LEADERSHIP.

IRAN RETALIATES, FIRING MISSILES AT ISRAEL.

THERE ARE DEAD AND INJURED ON BOTH SIDES.

TRUMP LEFT THE G7 MEETING EARLY IN CANADA WARNINGS SOMETHING BIG WAS GOING TO HAPPEN THAT HE NEEDED TO ATTEND TO IN WASHINGTON.

SEVEN YEARS AGO, TRUMP PULLED OUT OF OBAMA'S NUCLEAR DEAL WITH IRAN, PRECIPITATING THE NEW CURRENT IRANIAN CRISIS.

THE QUESTION NOW, WILL TRUMP BE DRAGGED BY HIS OWN --AND THE MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU INTO JOINING THE WAR.

EVEN TRUMP'S INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS CONFIRMED ABIDED DEMONSTRATION ASSESSMENT THAT IRAN HAS NOT TAKEN A DECISION TO WEAPON EYES IT'S URANIUM AND AT BEST IT WILL BE A FEW YEARS BEFORE IT HAD THE MATERIAL AND THE MEANS TO DELIVER A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

JUST BEFORE ISRAEL LAUNCHED ITS MASSIVE ATTACKS, THE -- DECLARED IRAN IN BREACH OF ITS NONPROLIFERATION AGREEMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 20 YEARS.

THE DIRECTOR GENERAL IS JOINING ME FROM VIENNA.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

IF I COULD JUST FIRST START BY ASKING YOU WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND TO BE THE NATURE OF THE DAMAGE CAUSED AT THE MAIN IRANIAN ENRICHMENT SITES.

WHAT IS THE DAMAGE AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?

>> THANK YOU.

AGAIN, A PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU.

YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS ISSUE FOR MANY YEARS.

IT IS GOOD TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

THIS IS INDEED A DRAMATIC MOMENT.

WE ARE FOLLOWING THE EVOLUTION OF THE SITUATION AND IN PARTICULAR SIDE-BY-SIDE.

IRAN HAS AN IMPORTANT AND AMBITIOUS NUCLEAR PROGRAM WHICH INVOLVES A NUMBER OF FACILITIES SPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

GOING FACILITY BY FACILITY, I WOULD SAY THE ONE THAT HAS SUSTAINED THE WORST, I WOULD SAY, DAMAGE IS ONE WHICH IS CALLED --, A PLACE WHERE THERE IS A NUMBER OF ACTIVITIES THERE BUT, MOST NOTABLY, URANIUM ENRICHMENT.

THERE, TWO IMPORTANT THINGS HAPPENED RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE OPERATIONS.

ONE THING WAS THAT ABOVE GROUND, THEY HAVE ABOVEGROUND AND UNDERGROUND ENRICHMENT FACILITIES.

THE ABOVE GROUND FACILITY WAS WIPED OUT.

WAS COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

ON TOP OF THAT, THE ENTIRE ELECTRICAL POWER INSTALLATION ON WHICH THE ENTIRE COMPOUND OPERATES WAS ALSO TAKEN OUT.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

I AM MENTIONING THIS BECAUSE, THE UNDERGROUND CASCADES AND CENTRIFUGES, WE ASSESS THAT HAVE ALSO SUFFERED SIGNIFICANT, I MEAN THOSE WHO ARE UNDERGROUND BECAUSE, WITH A SUDDEN STOP OF OUTSIDE POWER, THEY ARE BOUND TO MALFUNCTION.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A FEW THOUSAND CENTRIFUGES THAT MUST BE, AT THIS POINT, NOT OPERATIONAL.

AND YOU HAVE OTHER SITES, FOR EXAMPLE, --.

THERE, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF ATTACKS.

A FABRICATION, A LABORATORY, THREE OR FOUR BUILDINGS THAT WERE HIT.

THIS IS CONSIDERABLE, I WOULD SAY AS WELL.

THERE IS, AS WELL JUST AS IN - -THERE ARE UNDERGROUND FACILITIES, WHICH IN PRINCIPLE, WE DO NOT SEE AS HAVING BEEN EFFECTED.

FINALLY, --WHICH IS FAMOUS OF COURSE, ALSO IN TERMS OF ENRICHMENT, YOU REMEMBER THIS WAS A FACILITY THAT HAD NOT BEEN DECLARED BY IRAN , IT WAS COVERED --DISCOVERED IN 2009.

SINCE THEN, WE HAVE BEEN VISITING AND INSPECTING IT.

WE DO NOT SEE MAJOR DAMAGE HERE.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE SOME MAYBE FOR A MENTAL IMPACTS BUT NOTHING REALLY PERTINENT.

THERE ARE MANY OTHERS OF COURSE.

>> I WANT TO ASK, BEFORE I GET TO --WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE FOCUS OF ATTENTION, HOW MUCH HAS THE NUCLEAR ENRICHMENT POSSIBILITY BEEN SET BACK, WOULD YOU SAY NOW?

>> I WOULD SAY IT HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANT, THE SETBACK.

NOT COMPLETELY.

BECAUSE, AS I AM SAYING, YOU HAVE ENRICHMENT CAPABILITIES APART FROM --YOU HAVE THEM IN --.

THESE DO NOT APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A WAR WHICH IS ON GROWING --THERE HASN'T BEEN.

I THINK THAT HAS BEEN A CLEAR SETBACK, THIS IS OBVIOUS BUT IT IS NOT, THE ENRICHMENT OF ABILITIES STILL EXIST.

>> ABOUT FORDOW, I WAS STRUCK BY TRUMP'S OTHER POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA TODAY.

JUST RECENTLY, ESSENTIALLY, WE CONTROL THE SKIES, HE SAID.

I DO NOT THINK, I DO NOT KNOW IF AMERICANS ARE FLYING THEIR OWN JETS.

HE IS IMPLYING ISRAEL IS FLYING AMERICAN-MADE JETS HAVE TOTAL IMPUNITY AND CONTROL OF THE AIRSPACE AND CONTROL THE SKIES.

WHICH MEANS THAT, POTENTIALLY, THEY CAN JUST HANG OUT OVER FORDOW AND KEEP BOMBING, RIGHT?

DO YOU THINK THEN, BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT FORDOW, THAT IT IS VERY HEAVILY REINFORCED?

IT WAS ALWAYS SAID ONLY THESE BIG MOP BOMBS THAT ONLY THE U. S. HAVE.

THAT HAS TO BE DELIVERED BY ONLY B-52S WHICH ONLY THE U. S. HAS.

MAYBE THAT EQUATION OR THAT CALCULATION MIGHT CHANGE IF THE ISRAELIS HAVE TOTAL FREEDOM OF ACTION, THEY CAN JUST HANG OUT OVER FORDOW FOREVER.

>> HOW CAN WE KNOW?

THE HYPOTHESIS IS SOUND BUT FRANKLY, I DO NOT KNOW AND I DO NOT WANT TO SPECULATE ON THAT.

>> OKAY.

>> WE CERTAINLY HOPE WE GO BACK TO A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION.

>> DO YOU REALLY?

WHAT DO YOU SEE?

TRUMP HIMSELF HAS SAID OUR PATIENTS IS WEARING THIN.

CERTAINLY BENJAMIN NETANYAHU DOES NOT WANT NEGOTIATIONS.

APPARENTLY THE IRANIANS ARE REACHING OUT ACCORDING TO SOURCES.

>> WE DO NOT KNOW.

LET ME SAY THAT WE DO NOT KNOW.

THERE'S ALWAYS, THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A SPACE FOR DIPLOMACY.

OTHERWISE, THIS WOULD BE A VERY DISMAL SITUATION, COMPLETELY DISMAL.

I THINK, EVEN IN YOU ARE CITING PRESENT TRUMP.

--PRESIDENT TRUMP, THERE COULD BE A WAY TO GO BACK TO DIPLOMATIC TABLE.

IT IS CLEAR, AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS THAT WERE LED BY AMBASSADOR WYCOFF AND THE DEALS THEY WERE TRYING TO BE STRUCK BEFORE WERE NOT YIELDING RESULTS THAT WERE EXPECTED.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE CAN BE A WAY TO GO BACK TO SOME CONVERSATION.

TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WHAT IS, YOU KNOW, THE OBJECTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES IN THIS SENSE.

WHICH IS NOT TO HAVE ANY ENRICHMENT CAPABILITIES IN IRAN .

I SUPPOSE THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY TO DISCUSS THAT.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE ONLY SOLUTION OUT OF THIS PROBLEM IS A MILITARY SOLUTION.

THERE MUST BE A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION.

>> JUST TO SAY AS YOU KNOW, ISRAEL HAS STRUCK THE HEART OF THE DIPLOMATIC PROCESS BY DOING IT WHEN THEY DID IT, WHEN IT WAS MEANT TO BE ANOTHER ROUND OF TALKS.

BASICALLY ASSASSINATING THE DESIGNATED LEADER OF THE NEGOTIATING TEAM.

MORE TO THE POINT I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

YOUR ASSESSMENT AS AN EXPERT ON THIS TOPIC.

ISRAEL CITED AN IMMINENT DANGER THAT THEIR INTELLIGENCE HAD, IT SAYS, ASSESSED THAT IRAN WAS ACCELERATING AND RUSHING TOWARD THE ABILITY OR DESIRE TO CREATE A BOMB.

THIS IS NOT WHAT U. S. INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN SAYING, BUT AT THE END OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND NOT IN THE FIVE MONTHS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

IN FACT, THE ASSESSMENTS HAVE REACHED A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION.

THEY SAID, THIS IS THE U. S. INTELLIGENCE, NOT ONLY WAS IRAN NOT ACTIVELY PURSUING A NUCLEAR WEAPON, IT WAS ALSO UP TO THREE YEARS AWAY FROM BEEN ABLE TO PRODUCE AND DELIVER WENT TO A TARGET OF ITS CHOOSING, THIS IS ACCORDING TO THIS REPORT.

FOUR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH THE ASSESSMENT.

THEY QUOTED THE HEAD OF THE DNI, TULSI GABBARD ET CETERA.

NOW, TULSI GABBARD SAYS THERE IS NO DAYLIGHT BETWEEN ME AND THOSE OF THE PEOPLE LIKE THE PRESIDENT, ET CETERA.

BUT YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU ARE THERE AND YOU HAVE BEEN INSPECTING.

WOULD YOU TELL ME AND THE WORLD EXACTLY WHAT IRAN WAS DOING AND WAS IT AT BREAKOUT, HAD IT TAKEN THAT DECISION DO YOU THINK?

>> YES, TO HELP YOU THERE, I HAVE TO SAY, THERE ARE THINGS WE KNOW AND THINGS WE DO NOT KNOW.

WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT WE KNOW, IT IS ON THE BASIS OF OUR INSPECTIONS.

WHEN WE ARE ON VERY SOLID GROUNDS, IS WHEN IT COMES TO THE MATERIAL THAT IRAN HAS OR HAD AT ITS DISPOSAL TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR DEVICES.

TALKING ABOUT HERE, THE ENRICHED URANIUM.

IN TERMS OF THE MATERIAL, THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN REPORTING TO THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE IEA, THEY HAVE ENOUGH MATERIAL TO IN CASE THEY DECIDED, THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL CONSTRUCTION, OF COURSE.

IN CASE THEY DECIDED TO DEVELOP A NUCLEAR WEAPON, THE MATERIAL IS THERE.

THEY HAVE MORE THAN 400 KILOGRAMS OF URANIUM ENRICHED AT 60%, WHICH IS ONE STEP AWAY FROM THE 90% WHICH IS REQUIRED FOR A NUCLEAR BOMB.

FOR NUCLEAR WEAPON.

OF COURSE, AS YOU KNOW, TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON, YOU NEED MORE THAN THE MATERIAL, THE MATERIAL IS OF COURSE, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

THIS IS WHY THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH COMMOTION AND SO MUCH EXCITEMENT AND CONCERN IN THE WORLD ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF THE MATERIAL ITSELF.

THEN, YOU NEED TO - -URANIUM.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE DETONATORS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT GO INSIDE THE WARHEAD TO MAKE IT EXPLODE.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT WISH TO TEST IT OR TO TRY IT.

I WOULD SAY, THERE IS THIS COMPETITION ABOUT WHO IS WRONG OR RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME THAT WOULD BE NEEDED.

CERTAINLY, IT WAS NOT FOR TOMORROW.

MAYBE NOT A MATTER OF YEARS, I WOULD BE PERHAPS MORE, SERIOUS ABOUT THIS AND I DO NOT THINK IT WAS A MATTER OF YEARS BUT, THIS IS SPECULATION.

I GO AGAIN TO THE BEGINNING OF MY COMMENT.

THESE THINGS, WE DO NOT KNOW.

IF THERE WAS SOME ACTIVITY, WHICH WAS CLAN TO SIGN OR HIDDEN OR AWAY FROM OUR INSPECTORS, WE COULD NOT KNOW.

WHAT WE INFORM AND WHAT WE REPORTED WAS THAT, WE DID NOT HAVE IN COINCIDENCE WITH SOME OF THE SOURCES YOU MENTIONED THERE, WE DID NOT HAVE ANY PROOF OF A SYSTEMATIC EFFORT TO MOVE INTO A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

THERE WERE MANY ELEMENTS THEY ARE.

I SAID, IN MY REPORT, YOU MENTIONED WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

IN MY REPORT LAST WEEK, I SAID IT WAS CERTAINLY NOT VERY HELPFUL THAT SOME IRANIAN HIGH OFFICIALS WERE SAYING IN FACT WE HAVE ALL THE BUSINESS -- PIECES OF THE PUZZLE.

THAT ARE NEEDED TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

THE ISSUE WAS, AND IS, A VERY SERIOUS ONE.

I HAVE TO BE OBJECTIVE.

I'M AN EDITOR, I'M AN INTERNATIONAL INSPECTOR.

I AM NOT AN ANALYST OR IN THE SENSE OF POLITICAL ANALYST OR POLITICAL SCIENTIST.

WHAT WE ARE TELLING YOU IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROVE.

THE MATERIAL IS THERE, THERE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST SOME ACTIVITIES RELATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

WE DID NOT HAVE AT THIS POINT, THESE ELEMENTS.

>> OKAY.

>> WHICH DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYBODY --EVERYTHING WAS IN ORDER.

>> YES, YOU DID.

>> I SAID I WAS NOT IN A CAPACITY TO AFFIRM AND CONFIRM EVERYTHING WAS IN ORDER.

>> RIGHT.

YOU DID AND YOU HAVE THE BOARD MEETING AND THEY CENSORED IRAN AND IT HAPPENED JUST BEFORE THE STRIKES BEGAN.

YOU HAD MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING AND APPARENTLY, THIS WAS PART OF SPECIAL ENVOY WOULD COST'S PLAN FOR SOME KIND OF CONSORTIUM AS A BRIDGE BILLING MECHANISM TO COME TO A DEAL.

WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS VIABLE?

DID YOU KNOW ENOUGH DETAILS ABOUT IT?

DID THE IRANIANS MISS AN OPPORTUNITY NOT TO TAKE THAT CONSORTIUM DEAL?

>> I THINK, I DID NOT I WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH ALL OF THE DETAILS, AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS A PROCESS THAT THE AMBASSADOR WAS HAVING WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTER.

I WAS IN CONVERSATION WITH BOTH OF THEM.

THE AMBASSADOR IS A VERY SERIOUS PERSON.

HE WAS DEALING WITH THIS, TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A CREATIVE ARTIFACT, IF YOU WILL TO TRY TO ENSURE THAT THERE WOULD BE ACCESS IF NEEDED IN IRAN FOR PEACEFUL NUCLEAR PROGRAM TO ENRICH URANIUM.

IN A WAY THAT WOULD ALSO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE DESIRE OF UNITED STATES NOT TO SEE ANY ENRICHMENT IN IRAN .

I THINK IT WAS AN IDEA, WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THIS IDEA COULD BE VIABLE OR NOT.

CERTAINLY, IT WAS VIABLE.

I THINK ANY IDEA, ANY IDEA, ANY INITIATIVE THAT WOULD BE THERE TO AVOID WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW.

A MILITARY CONFRONTATION, WAS WORTH EXPLORING.

>> ARE YOU IN TOUCH WITH THE IRANIANS NOW?

SINCE THE WAR BEGAN?

>> YES, NOT AS, LAST WEEK OF COURSE BECAUSE, THERE IS A WAR ONGOING AND EVEN MORE -- COMMUNICATIONS ARE RESTRICTED.

BUT I HAVE BEEN EXCHANGING MESSAGES, --SENT A LETTER TO ME ASKING FOR A SPECIAL SESSION OF THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS, WHICH WE DID.

WE HAVE SOME LIMITED CONTACT WITH IRANIAN NUCLEAR REGULATOR, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE, AS YOU MAY HAVE SEEN WE ARE PRODUCING UPDATES AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN TO TRY TO BRING TO THE WORLD TO YOU TO BE READY VALIDATED INFORMATION.

I MUST ADMIT THAT, MEDICATIONS ARE QUITE LIMITED AT THE MOMENT.

>> I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER YOU WOULD PUT A YOU KNOW, A FIGURE ON THE CHANCES OF NEGOTIATIONS RESTARTING.

LET'S SAY THEY DO NOT.

LET'S SAY THE REGIME SURVIVES, A WHOLE LOAD OF THREATS AGAINST THE REGIME.

REGIME CHANGE APPEARS TO BE CERTAINLY IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

IF THE REGIME SURVIVES, DO YOU THINK THAT THEY MIGHT DECIDE TO GO FOR THE VERY WEAPON YOU HAVE ALL TRIED TO PREVENT THEM FROM HAVING FOR ALL THESE DECADES?

BECAUSE THEY SEE THAT NOTHING ELSE MATTERS AND THAT NORTH KOREA HAS ONE AND THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHERS AND THEY ARE NOT THREATENED IN THE SAME WAY.

IS THERE A POSSIBILITY YOU THINK OF IT GOING DEEPLY UNDERGROUND SO TO SPEAK?

>> THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS.

BUT, I WOULD SAY THAT I DO NOT SEE IRAN GOING IN THIS DIRECTION.

YOU MAY HAVE NOTED THAT I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT BUT, IN THE DIALECT FOR EXAMPLE BETWEEN TRUMP AND VLADIMIR PUTIN, THERE IS AN AGREEMENT ON ONE THING, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THERE SHOULD NOT BE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

IN IRAN .

I INVITE YOU TO FACTOR IN THIS.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE BASIC CONSENSUS THIS SHOULD NOT BE ANY NUCLEAR WEAPON IN IRAN .

WHERE THIS THE COURSE OF ACTION TO BE FOLLOWED, IT WOULD BE VERY PROBLEMATIC.

SO I WOULDN'T EQUATE THIS SO QUICKLY WITH A CASE LIKE THE - -, FOR EXAMPLE.

I THINK THE GEOGRAPHICAL CONSIDERATIONS, THE ALLIANCES AND POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS, THEY ARE THE NATURE OF THE REGION, WOULD NOT LEND ITSELF TO THIS SO EASILY.

I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT, WHEN THE MILITARY CONFLICT IN THIS PHASE ENDS AND I HOPE IT IS SOONER RATHER THAN EAGER, WE HAD TO PUT AN END TO THIS.

I HOPE, THERE WILL HAVE TO BE A DIPLOMATIC TABLE AROUND WHICH WE WILL HAVE TO CONVERGE AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT WILL HAVE A NUCLEAR PROBLEM WITHOUT ANY MILITARY DELEGATION SO TO SPEAK.

THE IEA IS THERE AT THE MOMENT.

WE ARE IN A SITUATION OF GREAT EMERGENCY.

WE ARE LOOKING AT THE RADIOLOGICAL DANGERS THAT MAY EXIST OUT OF THE KINETIC FACE WE ARE GOING --PHASE WE ARE GOING THROUGH.

HOPING THAT NOTHING WILL HAPPEN APART FROM WHAT HAS HAPPENED SO FAR.

>> IT IS INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOUR ASSESSMENT, YOU ARE THE EXPERT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> OF COURSE, MY PLEASURE.

> >> THE ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER HAS ANNOUNCED THAT ISRAEL PLANS TO ATTACK QUOTE VERY SIGNIFICANT TARGETS AROUND TEHRAN.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS.

TRUMP PLANNED AN EMERGENCY MEETING WITH HIS NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM IN WASHINGTON TODAY AFTER LEAVING THE G-7 IN CANADA EARLY.

HIS REPUTATION AS A DEALMAKER AND A PEACE BROKER IS FIRMLY ON THE LINE AS EVERY SINGLE CRISIS AND WAR HE PROMISED TO QUICKLY SOLVE HAVE IN FACT, I WORSE SINCE HE ASSUMED OFFICE FIVE MONTHS AGO.

THE FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION JOINING ME IN STUDIO.

YOU ARE ALSO I BELIEVE CHIEF OF STAFF TO JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE DURING THE NUCLEAR NEGOTIATION.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, THIS ANNOUNCEMENT, OUT OF ISRAEL FROM THE DEFENSE MINISTER, WHAT YOU THINK, I REALIZE IT IS SPECULATION BUT, THAT IS WHAT LEADERSHIP IS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE NEXT PHASE?

>> NO IDEA WHAT TARGETS THEY ARE REFERRING TO.

THEY HAVE HIT TARGETS IN TEHRAN THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS.

NOT SURE THIS MARKS A DIFFERENT PHASE.

BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL ARE DOING A LOT OF SIGNALING, ISRAEL DOING MORE THAN SIGNALING, INTENDING TO PUT PRESSURE ON TEHRAN EITHER TO COME TO THE TABLE AND TAKE THE TERMS OF THE DEAL THAT TRUMP OFFERED PREVIOUSLY OR, MAKE OTHER CONCESSIONS RELATED TO ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM.

>> DO KNOW WHAT THE TERMS OF THE DEAL IS?

CONSORTIUM, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF PUBLIC DISCLOSURES RELATED TO THE DEAL WAS ON THE TABLE.

AT ONE POINT IT LOOK LIKE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MIGHT CONCEDE DOMESTIC ENRICHMENT OF URANIUM INSIDE IRAN , I BELIEVE YOU RALEYS TOTALLY OPPOSE THAT.

AND THEN TRUMP CAME OUT AND SAID THERE WILL BE NO DOMESTIC ENRICHMENT.

THIS CONSORTIUM MODEL WHERE A GROUP OF COUNTRIES WILL GET TOGETHER AND IN WHICH URANIUM COLLECTIVELY OUTSIDE OF IRAN WAS THE BEST OFFERED TO IRAN .

GIVEN THEIR OTHER OPTIONS YOU CAN SEE THAT APPEAL GOING UP.

>> INDEED, POTENTIALLY, IT WAS A GOOD DEAL, POTENTIALLY.

I UNDERSTAND THAT OTHER NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES, WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN PART OF IT ACCORDING TO REPORTS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE IT HAPPENING IN THE PERSIAN GULF AND IRAN BEEN ABLE TO COMPLAIN --CLAIM IT IS THERE AND THE U. S. BEING ABLE TO CLAIM IT IS NOT THERE.

YOU THINK THE OVER NEGOTIATED?

>> IRAN IS NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT TO NEGOTIATE WITH.

I'M SURE THEIR BOTTOM LINE TERMS WERE NEVER FULLY REVEALED IN NEGOTIATING ROOM.

WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN REVEALED UNTIL THE END STAGE.

THEY HAVE TAKEN A PUBLIC STANCE THAT DOMESTIC ENRICHMENT INSIDE IRAN IS A REDLINE FOR THEM.

IT IS POSSIBLE THIS CONSORTIUM MODEL DID NOT MEET THE TERMS THAT THE IRANIAN NEGOTIATORS WERE AUTHORIZED TO ACCEPT.

>> THEY HAVE SOME HUNDRED -- BREAKOUT LEVEL OF 90%.

THIS CONSORTIUM DEAL WOULD HAVE KEPT THE LEVEL OF ENRICHMENT DOWN TO 3175, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> THE KOSHER SHIM --IN IRAN AND A LOWER LEVEL OF ENRICHMENT IN THIS CONSORTIUM OUTSIDE OF IRAN.

>> THAT, THEY REQUIRE FOR THE NUCLEAR REACTORS?

FOR THE DOMESTIC TWO >> YAAKOV FUEL FOR THE REACTORS.

THERE ARE OTHER POTENTIAL MEDICAL AND OTHER USES.

IT IS WHEN YOU GET UP INTO THE 60% AND 90% WHICH IS WEAPONS GRADE WITH A DO NOT HAVE A CREDIBLE CASE THERE ARE CIVILIAN USES FOR THIS MATERIAL.

>> WHAT TO MAKE OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY?

YOU ARE WITH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE --, THAT TOOK MONTHS.

NEARLY TWO YEARS JUST TO NEGOTIATE.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

IT WASN'T PERFECT, IT WASN'T NIXON WENT TO CHINA, IT WAS AN ARMS CONTROL DEAL.

IT WASN'T PERFECT.

IS IT WORKING?

>> HERE'S THE WAY TO THINK ABOUT THAT I THINK.

THE TWO MAIN CRITICISMS OF IT ARE ONE, IT ONLY DEALT WITH NUCLEAR ISSUES.

OUR CALCULATION, WHICH OTHERS CAN TAKE A DIFFERENT POSITION, THERE WAS NO DEAL AVAILABLE TO UNITED STATES ON THE ENTIRE RANGE OF ISSUES BETWEEN THE U. S. AND IRAN IN THE WESTERN WORLD AND IRAN.

THE NUCLEAR ISSUE WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT SO WE FOCUSED ON THAT.

THE OTHER CRITICISM WAS THAT IT WAS TIME BOUND.

AT CERTAIN POINTS, CERTAIN CONSTRAINTS ON IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM WOULD EXPIRE.

IF WE WERE LIVING UNDER THAT TODAY, THOSE CONSTRAINTS WOULD NOT BEGIN TO EXPIRE UNTIL NEXT YEAR.

RIGHT NOW, WE WOULD BE DEALING WITH AN IRAN THAT HAD ONE YEAR OF BREAKOUT TIME.

IT WOULD TAKE ONE YEAR TO ACCUMULATE AS MUCH ENRICHED URANIUM AS WAS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE A WEAPON.

THE CONSTRAINTS WOULD THEN EASE OFF STARTING IN 2026.

DURING THE TIME IN WHICH IT WAS IN EFFECT, 2015 ROUGHLY GUINEA OF 2016, 2018, 2019 WHEN TRUMP PULLED OUT OF THE DEAL.

THE IEA TESTED AT EVERY POINT THAT IRAN WAS FOLLOWING THE TERMS OF THE DEAL AND THE U. S. INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE SAID THE SAME THING UNDER OBAMA AND TRUMP.

>> WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME DISTANCE?

ALTHOUGH TULSI GABBARD SAYS THERE IS NO DAYLIGHT BUT SHE AND HER INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ALSO PUT OUT AN ASSESSMENT WHICH I READ TO THE DIRECTOR GENERAL, THE LIKES OF WHICH, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THEY HAVE TAKEN A DECISION OR MOVED TOWARD WEAPONIZATION.

I THINK SHE SAID IT COULD TAKE THREE YEARS OR SO TO DO THAT AND HAVE A SUCCESSFUL WEAPON.

I THINK SHE GOT HER WRIST SLAPPED.

NOW, SHE IS SAYING THERE IS NO DAYLIGHT.

YOU WERE THERE AT THE END OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WAS THAT A SIMILAR ASSESSMENT?

>> WITH THE CAVEAT IS I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW OVER THE LAST FIVE MONTHS.

SINCE 2007 UNTIL THE END OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HAS BEEN REMARKABLY CONSISTENT ON THIS POINT.

IN 2007 THEY CONCLUDED THAT IRAN STOPPED SEEKING A NUCLEAR WEAPON IN 2003.

FOR THE LAST, 21 OR 22 YEARS, THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HAS TAKEN A POSITION THAT IRAN IS NOT SEEKING A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

THE ONE DISTINCTION THAT CAME INTO PLAY DURING 2024 WAS, THERE WAS A LOT OF CHATTER IN THE IRANIAN SYSTEM ABOUT WHETHER THEY NEEDED TO REVISIT THIS BAND FROM THE SUPREME LEADER ON SEEKING A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

THE REASON IS, A LOT OF IRAN 'S CONVENTIONAL ABILITIES, THEIR DETERRENCE, THEIR PROXIES, THEIR ALLIES IN THE REGION HAD BEEN COMPLETELY WEEKEND OR ELIMINATED ENTIRELY POST OCTOBER 7th.

SOME INSIDE THE IRANIAN SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT STARTED TO SAY PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY, WE NEED TO LOOK AGAIN AT THE POSSIBILITY OF A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

OUR OTHER DETERRENTS HAVE BEEN BADLY DAMAGED.

I TRY TO PUT THAT TO -- BUT I MANGLED IT.

COULD THAT BE A NEGATIVE BACKLASH TO THIS WAR AGAINST AND ALSO, THE COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF IRAN 'S CONVENTIONAL CAPACITY, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN.

INCLUDING ITS AIR DEFENSES.

I KNOW SENDING MISSILES TO ISRAEL BUT APPARENTLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT MANY LEFT.

>> THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN WHICH HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS TECHNICAL SUCCESS ON THE PART OF ISRAEL VIS-À-VIS IRAN 'S CAPABILITIES AND PROXIES.

WE FORGET IN THIS CONTEXT, IRAN ATTACKED ISRAEL TWICE WITH HUNDREDS OF BALLISTIC MISSILES AND DRONES IN 2024.

IN THE UNITED STATES, OUR ADMINISTRATION AND ISRAEL WORK TOGETHER TO DEFEAT THOSE TWO ATTACKS.

THAT ALSO - -AND ISRAEL, IN RESPONSE, TOOK OUT A NUMBER OF IRAN 'S AIR DEFENSES WHICH PAVED THE WAY FOR THE OPERATIONS YOU ARE SEEING NOW.

>> IN ADDITION TO WHAT THE DEFENSE MINISTRY SAID ABOUT TAKING OUT SIGNIFICANT TARGETS IN TEHRAN AND, COME ON, 10 MILLION PEOPLE TO EVACUATE?

THERE IS PANIC IN THE STREETS.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A LITTLE.

HE SAID, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I THINK THE ISRAELIS HAVE SAID, THE UNITED STATES IS A GREAT FRIEND.

AT THE MOMENT, THEY ARE HELPING US ON THE DEFENSE AGAINST SOME OF THE ATTACKS AND WE THANK THEM FOR THAT.

HE SAID THEY ARE NOT CONDUCTING NEGOTIATIONS.

THIS IS THE FIRST I HAVE HEARD OF OFFICIAL INFORMATION THAT THE U. S. IS INVOLVED IN DETERRING THESE ATTACKS.

I KNOW THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY BUT, THEY ARE NOT BRAGGING ABOUT IT.

>> I DON'T THINK THE PENTAGON HAS BEEN HIDING THE FACT THEY BEEN HELPING ISRAELIS SHOOT MISSILES OUT OF THE SKY THAT WERE INTENDED FOR ISRAEL.

WE WERE NOT QUITE ABOUT THAT.

A PRETTY OBVIOUS DECISION FOR U. S. PRESIDENT.

LEAVING ASIDE THAT ISRAEL IS OUR CLOSEST ALLY IN THE REGION, WE WOULD DEFEND THEM ANYWAY, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS IN ISRAEL AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT.

THAT DEFENSIVE WORK, WHICH HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL, ALTHOUGH NOT 100%.

I THINK WE GAVE A BIT OF A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY LAST YEAR BY REDUCING ISRAELI CASUALTIES ALMOST DOWN TO ZERO THAT THIS COULD BE DONE TOTAL LACK OF EFFECT ON THE ISRAELI POPULATION.

SECOND YOU THINK THAT IS BECAUSE NOT ALL THE OTHER ALLEYS WERE INVOLVED THEY WERE BEFORE?

>> NO, I THINK THAT IS MERELY A FUNCTION OF THE FACT THAT SHOOTING BALLISTIC MISSILES OUT OF THE SKY IS REALLY HARD.

>> CAN I MOVE ON TO THE BIG ISSUES THAT HAVE REALLY PRINTED UNDER TRUMP RATHER THAN GETTING BETTER.

UKRAINE HAS GOTTEN MUCH WORSE, RUSSIA IS MUCH MORE VIOLENT IN MISSILES AND DRONES ON CIVILIAN TARGETS INSIDE UKRAINE AND OTHERS.

AS YOU SEE, ISRAEL IS STILL, YOU KNOW, GOING, BOMBING GAZA.

TODAY, WE UNDERSTAND FROM HEALTH OFFICIALS THERE, ANOTHER SEVERAL DOZEN CIVILIANS WERE KILLED.

MANY OF THEM AROUND THAT SO- CALLED DISTRIBUTIONAL PLACE.

THAT HAS NOT CHANGED.

NOW, WE HAVE THIS AND TRUMP SAID HE WANTED TO BE A PEACEMAKER.

HE EMBRACED VLADIMIR PUTIN AT THE G7 TODAY.

NOT THERE BUT, METAPHORICALLY HE SHOULD BE HERE, HE SHOULD BE HELPING US.

WHAT YOU THINK AMERICAN DIPLOMACY IS HEADED NOW AND IN THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> A GOOD AND IMPORTANT CHRISTIAN.

I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SEEING PLAY OUT IN MANY WAYS IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A POLITICAL CANDIDATE WE DO NOT HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES WHERE, WHETHER IT IS YOUR FAULT OR NOT, YOU SORT OF ON THE OUTCOMES BECAUSE THE TRADITIONAL LEADERSHIP ROLE THE UNITED STATES PLAYS IN THE WORLD.

WE WERE FIGHTING THAT DURING THE BIDEN DEMONSTRATION.

A BIG ENORMOUS CONCERT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

THE TRAGIC EVENTS HORRIFIC EVENTS OF OCTOBER 7th.

UNITED STATES DIDN'T CAUSE THOSE EVENTS BUT, YOU SORT OF OWN THE OUTCOMES.

TRUMP WAS ABLE TO SAY, LOOK HOW MESSY THE WORLD IS.

WOULDN'T BE LIKE THAT IF I WAS IN CHARGE.

NOW IS FINDING THAT ACTUALLY RESOLVING THESE SITUATIONS IS HARDER THAN TALKING ABOUT THEM FROM THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> A FINAL QUESTION, THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

WE READ AND HEAR THE WHOLE PROCESS, EVISCERATED SO MANY DEPARTMENTS, SO MUCH OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN TERMS OF HUMAN RESOURCES THAT SPEND THE HOURS AND TIME AND COMING UP WITH OPTIONS FOR THE PRESIDENT.

YOU TELL ME, YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

CAN HE DO ALL OF THESE BIG THINGS WITH THE LIMITED GROUP THAT HAS?

>> I WILL SAY, I WORRY ABOUT THAT.

TO GIVE THIS ADMINISTRATION CREDIT.

I THINK THEY ARE CORRECT TO SEEK DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS TO THESE CONFLICTS.

I THINK DEPLOYING THE PRESIDENT'S MOST TRUSTED ADVISER EITHER TO RUSSIA AND UKRAINE OR TO THE CURRENT CONFLICT I THINK SHOWS THE PRESIDENT IS PRIORITIZING THIS.

I WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

WHEN WE NEGOTIATED THE JCP OA, WHICH HAS COMPLICATED INTRICATE TECHNICAL DIMENSIONS OF NUCLEAR PHYSICS WHEN IT COMES TO THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM OF THE KIND OF ECONOMIC ARCHITECTURE OF SANCTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THE SANCTIONS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE LIFTED FOR IRAN TO ACCEPT A DEAL, WE LEANED HEAVILY ON EXPERTS THROUGHOUT THE U. S. GOVERNMENT FROM OUR TREASURY DEPARTMENT, THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY.

PEOPLE WHO WE BROUGHT DIRECTLY INTO THESE TALKS TO MAKE SURE WE WERE NOT MISSING ANYTHING, WE WERE NOT BEING TRACKED IN SOME WAY BY IRANIAN NEGOTIATORS.

I WORRY THAT A LOT OF THAT EXPERTISE HAS GONE OUT THE DOOR DURING THE COURSE OF THE FIRST FEW MONTHS OF THIS MINISTRATION AND I HOPE THE LEAD NEGOTIATORS HAVE PEOPLE TO RELY ON WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

>> IF THERE IS A LEADERSHIP DOCKET, TRUMP SAID I THINK HE HE SAID HE IS VULNERABLE.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

DO YOU ENVISION, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?

>> I THINK THAT WOULD SIGNAL HONESTLY A DIFFERENT GOAL FOR THE WAR.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM AND MISSILE PROGRAM.

MILITARY TARGETS.

IF THEY START TO GO AFTER LEADERSHIP TARGETS, THAT SIGNALS THEY ARE SEEKING REGIME CHANGE IN THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS YOU DO NOT KNOW, NECESSARILY WHAT FOLLOWS.

>> INDIA.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WHILST POLITICAL TURMOIL CONTINUES TO CAUSE DOMESTIC CHAOS IN UNITED STATES, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS FIGHTING ITS OWN BATTLES WITH INTERNAL TENSIONS MOUNTING, INCLUDING IN THE DNC.

RAISING THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IT CAN BE A SUCCESSFUL OPPOSITION PARTY THROUGH TRUMP'S SECOND PRESIDENCY.

THE NEWLY ELECTED CHAIR OF THE DNC HAS PLENTY OF IDEAS AND HE JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO DISCUSS THEM.

>> YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> AVIDLY, WHEN WE ARRANGED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION SOME TIME AGO OUR PLAN WAS TO TALK ABOUT YOUR PLANS FOR THE DNC, TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE DISAGREEMENTS, THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN HAVING.

BUT THEN, OF COURSE, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, WE WERE CONFRONTED WITH A HORRIFIC MURDER OF STATE REPRESENTATIVES MELISSA HORTON AND HER HUSBAND AND ALSO THE WOUNDING OF STATE SENATOR JOHN HOFFMAN AND HIS WIFE.

THANKFULLY, THEY SEEM TO BE RECOVERING.

YOU HAVE KNOWN HER FOR A LONG TIME, YOU ARE THE FORMER CHAIR OF THE PARTY IN MINNESOTA.

IF YOU WOULD JUST GIVE ME A MEMORY OF REPRESENTATIVE PORTMAN, A LONG-STANDING SPEAKER THE HOUSE, ONE OF THE LONGEST SERVING AND UNDERTOOK DEPOSITION AT A RELATIVELY YOUNG AGE.

WHAT IS YOUR MOST SIGNIFICANT MEMORY OF HER?

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING AND LET ME SAY AS A PROUD MINNESOTAN, MY HEART BREAKS OBVIOUSLY FOR ALL OF MY FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES BACK HOME IN MINNESOTA IMAGINE WAKING UP TO THE NEWS SATURDAY AS I DID AND MANY MINNESOTANS DID THAT THERE HAD BEEN A SHOOTING IN ONLY TO FIND OUT LATER IT WAS THE HOMES OF SOME LETTUCE LEADERS AND TO FIND OUT LATER IN THE DAY TWO OF YOUR VERY CLOSE FRIENDS, MELISSA AND MARK, WHO I HAVE KNOWN OVER HALF OF MY LIFE WERE ASSASSINATED.

TWO OF MY OTHER FRIENDS WERE, THEY TENDED TO MURDER THEM AS WELL.

MELISSA HORTMAN WAS AN AMAZING CHANGE MAKER IN OUR STATE.

SHE WON IN 2004, CAME INTO THE LEGISLATURE AND IMMEDIATELY STARTED TO CLIMB THE RANKS.

IN 2018 WHEN WE WENT BACK THE HOUSE MAJORITY, SHE BECAME THE SPEAKER.

ONE OF OUR LONGEST SERVING SPEAKERS.

FRANKLY, ONE OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL.

WHEN TIM WALZ WAS PUT ON THE TICKET BY KAMALA HARRIS LAST FALL, THE FIRST CALL HE MADE WAS TO SPEAKER HORTMAN.

WHAT HE SAID IS THANK YOU.

TAKE YOU FOR ALL YOU DID BECAUSE, IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU I WOULD NOT BE ON THE TICKET.

THAT IS TRUE BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THE REMARKABLE LEGISLATION THAT PASSED IN MINNESOTA, COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS THE MINNESOTA MIRACLE, SHE WAS THE ARCHITECT OF IT.

SHE WAS THE PERSON WHO NOT ONLY PUSHED FOR IT BUT WAS PERSISTENT AND RELENTLESS IN MAKING SURE OTHER DEMOCRATS UNDERSTOOD THAT POWER IS FLEETING.

AND WHEN YOU HAVE POWER YOU HAVE TO USE IT TO MAKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU COULD.

TRULY, SHE LEAVES AN AMAZING LEGACY.

A REMARKABLE LEGACY THAT WILL IMPACT GENERATIONS OF MINNESOTANS TO COME.

IT IS SO DEVASTATING ON A VERY PERSONAL LEVEL TO SOMEONE I WAS SO CLOSE TO.

FOR THE STATE, SHE WAS SUCH AN AMAZING LEADER.

OUR HEARTS BREAK, I'LL MINNESOTANS, REGARDLESS OF PARTY ARE IN PAIN RIGHT NOW.

I WISH I WAS BACK HOME WITH THEM.

>> I WOULD IMAGINE SO.

LIKE YOU AND LIKE SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE, I WOKE UP TO THIS NEWS.

AT FIRST I WAS SHOCKED.

THEN I THOUGHT, SHOULD I BE SHOCKED?

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, OVER THE LAST MONTHS AND FEW YEARS, WE KNOW TWO ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS DIRECTED AT TRUMP.

THE GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA'S HOME WAS FIREBOMBED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHILE HIS FAMILY SLEPT.

NOT TO MENTION THE JANUARY 6 MOB ATTACK ON THE CAPITAL.

I GUESS WHAT I AM SAYING IS IT IS SHOCKING ON THE ONE HAND BUT, IS IT REALLY SHOCKING?

I THINK THAT IS A FAIR QUESTION.

THE REALITY IS, I HEAR PEOPLE SAY BOTH THIS WEEKEND AND EVEN BEFORE, THIS IS NOT WHO WE ARE AS AMERICA.

I WOULD SAY, UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS WHO WE ARE.

IT IS NOT WHO WE SHOULD BE.

IT IS NOT WE NEED TO BE.

MEANING THAT WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY.

IF YOU REJECT THIS TYPE OF VIOLENCE AND DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANY MORE OF IT, WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS WHO WE HAVE BECOME AS A COUNTRY.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THIS IS PERMANENT.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THIS IS WHO WE NEED TO BE.

IT REQUIRES ALL OF US IN THIS MOMENT TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST POLITICAL VIOLENCE OF ANY FORM OR KIND.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO WHAT YOU THINK YOUR ROLE IS RIGHT NOW.

I DO NOT KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ASSUME YOU DO NOT RUN FOR THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE SO YOU WILL BE OFFERING CONDOLENCES TO THE COUNTRY AT A TIME LIKE THIS BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS YOUR TASK RIGHT NOW.

ON A BROADER SENSE, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS YOUR ROLE AS CHAIRMAN OF ONE OF THE GREAT CLINICAL PARTIES IN AMERICA?

>> WE ARE THE OLDEST POLITICAL PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY.

THE OLDEST AND LONGEST ENDURING DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD.

MY ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY RIGHT NOW IS SINGULAR.

TO WIN ELECTIONS.

TO PUT US BACK INTO POWER.

ACTUALLY HELP US STOP THIS TYRANT IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO THE STORY THE VALUES OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

FOR ME, A FIERCE FOCUS ON BUILDING AN INFRASTRUCTURE EVERYWHERE.

OUR PHILOSOPHY HERE IS VERY SIMPLE, WHEN YOU ORGANIZE EVERYWHERE, YOU CAN WIN ANYWHERE.

AS A RESULT, WE HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO DO THAT.

I AM FOUR MONTHS ON THE JOB AND WE HAVE OVER PERFORMED OUR ONE TWO OR TWO OR WON SINCE TRUMP WAS ON THE BALLOT.

THERE IS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY IN EVERY CRISIS AND RIGHT NOW THAT OPPORTUNITY IS WE CAN EXPAND OUR COALITION TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO EITHER LEFT OUR PARTY, SUPPORTED DONALD TRUMP AND ARE HAVING BUYERS REMORSE OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE FELT ABANDONED BY OUR PARTY.

THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE THEM HOPE THAT BETTER DAYS ARE AHEAD AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES FIGHTING FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES.

>> WHAT IS THE CRISIS FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

IS THAT A CRISIS OF BRAND?

A CRISIS OF MESSAGE OR A CRISIS OF IDEAS?

>> I THINK IT IS ALL OF IT IF I AM BEING HONEST.

LET ME START WITH LAST SPRING, THERE WAS RESEARCH THAT SHOWED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MODERN HISTORY THAT THE PERCEPTIONS OF THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES HAS FLIPPED.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS NOW BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BEST REPRESENTS THE INTEREST OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, THE WORKING CLASS AND THE POOR.

AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS THE PARTY OF THE WEALTHY AND ELITE.

THAT IS A THING INDICTMENT - - YOU KNOW THIS AS WELL AS I DO, MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DO NOT VOTE ON POLICY AND ISSUES THEY VOTE ON PERCEPTIONS AND FEELINGS.

THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE FEELING FORGOTTEN, WHO ARE FEELING LEFT BEHIND AND FEELING LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOES NOT PRESENT THEM ANYMORE OR, IS NOT FIGHTING HARD ENOUGH FOR THEM AND THEIR COMMUNITY'S.

THAT PERCEPTION WILL TAKE TIME TO CHANGE.

WHEN I SAY THERE'S A CRISIS, THERE IS A CRISIS OF BRAND AND IDENTITY.

A CRISIS OF PERCEPTION.

WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF GIVING PEOPLE A SENSE WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT HARD FOR THEM WHEN WE ARE BACK IN POWER.

IN THIS MOMENT, WHEN THINGS ARE SO CHAOTIC IN WASHINGTON, D. C. , WE ALSO HAD TO STAND UP AND FIGHT AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

THE REALITY IS, IN 2016, SOMEONE SAID TO ME THE REPUBLICANS ARE SHAMELESS BUT THE DEMOCRATS ARE SPINELESS.

IF WE ARE NOT WILLING TO STAND UP AND FIGHT HARD AGAINST DONALD TRUMP RIGHT NOW, HOW DO WE BELIEVE THAT THE AMERICAN VOTERS WILL THINK WE WOULD FIGHT FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES IF THEY PUT US BACK IN POWER?

MORE IMPORTANTLY, I ASK THIS QUESTION EVERYWHERE I GO TO DEMOCRATS.

IF WE ARE NOT WILLING TO STAND UP AND FIGHT, FOR THE THINGS WE BELIEVE IN THEN THE QUESTION IS, DO WE REALLY BELIEVE IN THEM AT ALL?

>> WHOSE FAULT IT IS?

>> I THINK IT IS ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FOR MANY YEARS.

THE REALITY IS, THIS IS NOT A SINGULAR OCCURRENCE OF ONE ELECTION.

WE HAVE BEEN LOSING GROUND WITH PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

>> WHY?

>> WHY?

I THINK THERE IS A MULTITUDE OF FACTORS WHY WE HAVE BEEN LOSING GROUND.

I WOULD ARGUE ONE IS HOW WE CAMPAIGN.

WE SHOP THREE TO FOUR MONTHS BEFORE AN ELECTION, THE FIRST CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH VOTERS IS ASKING THEM TO DO SOMETHING FOR OUR PARTY AND CANDIDATES WHICH IS TO VOTE FOR THE BEST.

WE DO NOT SHOW UP FOR TWO YEARS AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION.

VOTERS DO NOT BELIEVE WE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THEM AS PEOPLE, AS HUMANS.

WE DO NOT REALLY INVEST IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THAT WE ARE NOT INVESTED IN THEIR SUCCESS.

PART OF IT IS HOW WE CAMPAIGN.

WE NEED YEAR-ROUND ORGANIZING WHAT WE HAVE IN MINNESOTA, WHERE THE FIRST CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH VOTERS IS NOT TRANSACTIONAL BUT ASKING VOTERS WITH THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS ARE FOR THEIR COMMUNITIES AND EVENTUALLY BUILDING A RELATIONSHIP AROUND SHARED VALUES.

AND ONLY AFTER WE HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR THEIR VOTE ASKING THEM TO VOTE FOR OUR PARTY AND CANDIDATES.

I WOULD ARGUE, ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE LOST IS BECAUSE THE WAY WE TREAT VOTERS AND THEIR COMMUNITIES AS COMMODITIES.

AND ALSO, WHEN WE GET INTO OFFICE, WE DO NOT ACTUALLY DELIVER ON THE PROMISES WE MADE.

>> HERE'S WHERE I HAD TO JUMP IN AND ASK.

YOUR FIRST FOUR MONTHS IN OFFICE HAS BEEN TAKEN UP WITH OR AT LEAST PUBLICLY SEE, DISPUTES WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PARTY, PEOPLE AT THE OUTGOING VICE CHAIR, DAVID HOGG.

SOME OF WHICH TWO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT DEMOCRATS OVERPROMISING AND UNDER DELIVERING IS WHAT HE HAS BEEN THING.

>> I HAVE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH WHAT DAVID HOGG IS TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK PRIMARIES ARE IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HOLD ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE PRIMARY SO WE BRING NEW VOICES INTO THE PARTY PROCESS.

LET ME BE VERY CLEAR.

I PUSHED A NEUTRALITY PLEDGE LONG BEFORE DAVID HOGG WAS EVER INVOLVED IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS IN 2017, AFTER THE 16 ELECTION, I WAS THE AUTHOR OF THE SUPERDELEGATE REFORM ON THE RULES AND BYLAWS COMMITTEE AND I BROUGHT A NEUTRALITY PLEDGE FORWARD AT THAT TIME.

I BELIEVE GOT OUR WIN IS BY EXPANDING OUR COALITION TO ADDITION NOT SUBSCRIPTION.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, PEOPLE WHO WERE A PART OF THE PARTY APPARATUS SHOULDN'T TAKE SIDE?

>> YEAH, PARTY OFFICERS SHOULD NOT BE PUTTING THEIR THUMB ON THE SCALE AND PICKING WINNERS OR LOSERS.

OUR JOB IS TO STAY AT A PRIMARY FIGHTS AND LET THE WILL OF THE PRIMARY VOTERS MAIL.

WHOEVER THEY CHOOSE, WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE, WE WORK TO GET ELECTED.

WHY DOES THAT MATTER TO ME?

JUST LIKE DAVID, I BELIEVE WE WIN THROUGH ADDITION NOT SUBTRACTION.

WE WIN BY BRINGING PEOPLE INTO THE PARTY, NOT BY PUSHING THEM OUT.

>> WHAT WAS SO DANGEROUS ABOUT HIS IDEA?

DAVID HOGG IS A YOUNG MAN WHO FIRST CAME TO PUBLIC ATTENTION AS A SURVIVOR OF THE PARKLAND HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING IN FLORIDA.

WHICH IS WHERE HE WENT.

AND BECAME ACTIVE AS A LATVIAN PEOPLE HAVE, AROUND THE ISSUE OF GUN VIOLENCE.

AS THEY ARE SO DIRECTLY AFFECTED IN SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

WHICH OF ALSO TRAGICALLY BECOME COMMONPLACE.

HE HAS GONE TO COLLEGE, HE IS NOW READY FOR THIS POSITION IN THE PARTY.

AND HAD THIS NOTION OF, CREATING A PACKED TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE, WELL, I GUESS TO CHALLENGE INCUMBENTS WHO HE FELT WERE UNDERPERFORMING.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD IDEA IN YOUR OPINION?

>> I DID NOT SAY IT WAS A BAD IDEA.

I THINK WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, YOU CANNOT DO BOTH.

YOU CANNOT BE THE REFEREE WHEN YOUR JOB IS TO CREATE A FAIR AND LEVEL LANGFIELD FOR ALL CANDIDATES.

AND FRANKLY, THEIR SUPPORTERS, WITHOUT INTERFERENCE FROM PARTY BOSSES.

AND ALSO BE INVOLVED IN A PACT THAT IN FACT IS INVOLVED IN PRIMARIES.

YOU CANNOT DO BOTH.

THIS WAS NOT A QUESTION OF IMPUGNING HIS MOTIVES OR WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO AT ALL.

ONLY TO SAY WE ALSO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY AS PARTY LEADERS, OUR CHIEF RESPONSIBILITY IS TO STAY OUT OF PRIMARIES BECAUSE IT IS NOT UP TO US TO INFLUENCE IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FOR AN INCUMBENT OR CHALLENGER.

OUR JOB IS TO STAY OUT BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT SUPPORTERS OF CANDIDATES TO FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICE DID NOT MATTER.

LIKE THEY DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD.

LIKE THEY DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO FAIRLY COMPETE FOR THE PARTY NOMINATION.

IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT WILL HELP US GROW THE PARTY AND BRING NEW VOICES IN, ESPECIALLY VOICES OF YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO ARE DISILLUSIONED WITH THE PARTY IS MAKING SURE PARTY BOSSES ARE NOT PUTTING THEIR THUMBS ON THE SCALE.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT IMPUGNING DAVID'S MOTIVES AT ALL.

I AM A BIG FAN OF HIS.

THIS HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT DAVID HOGG.

JUST THE OPPOSITE, THIS HAS BEEN ABOUT MY LONG-STANDING BELIEF, FOR MANY YEARS OUR PARTY SHOULD BE NEUTRAL IN PRIMARIES AND INCLUSIVE.

>> I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT BUT, DAVID HOGG WAS ELECTED TO THAT POSITION JUST AS YOU WERE AND IF THAT IS A DIFFERENT VISION, I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE A STRONG VIEW OF THE MATTER BUT HE WAS ELECTED JUST LIKE YOU, WHY NOT JUST LET IT PLAY OUT?

>> IT DID PLAY OUT AND DAVID DECIDED TO RESIGN HIS POSITION BEFORE THERE WAS ANOTHER VOTE.

>> 71% OF DEMOCRATS AND 78% OF AMERICANS OVERALL THINK THE PARTY HAS BEEN IN AFFECTED - - INEFFECTIVE IN STANDING UP TO DROP.

FOCUS GROUPS LICHEN REPUBLICANS TO LIONS AND DEMOCRATS TO'S LAWS.

-- >> PEOPLE HAVE TO THROW A PUNCH.

JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, WHEN THERE IS A CHILD WHO DIED OF MEASLES IN TEXAS, I SENT A TWEET THAT SAID ROBERT KENNEDY MURDERED ANOTHER CHILD.

THE FIRST PEOPLE TO COMPLAIN OF COURSE, THE DEMOCRATS.

>> WHAT DID THEY SAY?

>> I WILL TELL YOU WHAT SOME OF THEM SAID.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO PRESERVE THE OPTION TO WORK WITH THESE FOLKS.

WE SHOULDN'T BE SO AGGRESSIVE IN OUR MESSAGING.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

WHEN WE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DEMOCRATS TO WORRY ABOUT OFFENDING SOMEONE.

TO THROW A PUNCH AND THEN PULL IT BACK BECAUSE WE USED THE WRONG WORDS.

YOU THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE ANY COMPUNCTION WHEN THEY GET INTO OFFICE?

NO, THEY RUSH FORWARD WITH THEIR AGENDA AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY DID NOT CARE ABOUT OFFENDING DEMOCRATS OR EVEN WORKING WITH DEMOCRATS.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE HAVE TO STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL.

THAT WE HAVE TO LIE AND EXCHANGE MISINFORMATION.

BUT, WE DO HAVE TO THROW A PUNCH.

WE DO HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIGHT FOR OUR VALUES.

WE HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE A SENSE WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT FOR THEM AND THEIR COMMUNITIES.

IT IS PART OF THE REASON WHY YOU SEE RESEARCH THAT.

THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT HARD FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT CONTRIBUTES TO PERCEPTIONS AND FEELINGS THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS ABANDONED THEM AND THEIR FEELINGS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THINGS LIKE IMMIGRATION WHERE, CLEARLY SOME OF THE BEHAVIOR THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ENGAGING IN IS DISTASTEFUL TO MANY AMERICANS BUT OTHER PEOPLE AGREE WITH IT.

HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THE DEMOCRATS NAVIGATE THAT?

>> DEMOCRATS HAVE SAID THAT WE NEED BORDER SECURITY.

IN FACT, PRESIDENT BIDEN AND OTHERS NEGOTIATED WITH THE MOST REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF THE U. S. SENATE AND JAMES LANKFORD FROM OKLAHOMA LAST YEAR.

A BIPARTISAN DEAL TO BRING FORWARD STRICT BORDER SECURITY AND IMMIGRATION REFORM.

WHO KILLED THE BILL?

DONALD TRUMP.

DONALD TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS WALKED AWAY FROM IT.

GUESS WHAT?

THEY NOW HAVE COMPLETE UNIFIED CONTROL OF GOVERNMENT.

WHERE IS THEIR IMMIGRATION BILL?

WHERE IS THEIR IMMIGRATION POLICY TO ACTUALLY MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE BORDER SECURITY?

>> THEY ARGUE THEIR POLICY IS MASS DEPORTATION.

THAT IS NOT A SECRET.

THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

>> MY POINT IS, THAT POLICY IS CHAOTIC AND DYSFUNCTIONAL.

IT IS NOT HELPING US SOLVE THE ISSUE IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

THE POINT THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT YES, THE REPUBLICANS CAN TALK ALL THEY WANT ABOUT PUTTING POLICIES FORWARD BUT, WHAT WE SEE ON THE STREETS WHEN YOU'RE ROUNDING UP PEOPLE INDISCRIMINATELY, WHEN YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY CREATING CHAOS AROUND THIS ISSUE, IT IS NOT A LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

IT MIGHT MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD TO ROUND PEOPLE UP AND SAY YOU ARE DEPORTING THEM BUT, WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THIS COUNTRY.

EVEN DONALD TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS ARE LOSING GROUND BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DEAL WITH IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION.

WE, AS A PARTY, WE ARE READY AND WILLING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IMMIGRATION POLICY IN THIS COUNTRY AND OF COURSE, ORDER SECURITY.

THE REPUBLICANS REFUSED TO DO IT AND INSTEAD, THEY ARE JUST INFLICTING CHAOS AND DYSFUNCTION THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY TO THESE MASS DEPORTATIONS THAT WILL NOT ACTUALLY SOLVE THE ISSUE, IT IS MAKING IT WORSE.

>> MR. CHAIRMAN, NIKKI SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

I HOPE WE WILL TALK AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FINALLY GOT FIGHTING TO RECLAIM THEIR HISTORY, FOR DECADES THE ANCESTRAL REMAINS FROM TRIBES IN INDIA HAVE BEEN ON DISPLAY IN A BRITISH NEWSEUM.

SINCE THEY WERE STOLEN DURING COLONIAL RULE.

NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, A DEDICATION HAVE MADE THEIR WAY TO THE MUSEUM IN OXFORD TO TRY TO BRING THE REMAINS HOME.

AND THUS, THEY BELIEVE, TO BRING PEACE TO THE SOULS OF THEIR ANCESTORS.

>> FOR THE FIRST TIME, THERE IS ANOTHER DELEGATION NOT AS RESEARCHERS, NOT AS SCHOLARS TO STUDY BUT TO CONNECT AND RECLAIM OUR HISTORY.

WE DO NOT LOOK AT THE OBJECTS AROUND AS OBJECTS.

THEY ARE OUR BELONGINGS AND HERITAGE.

>> PART OF A WORLDWIDE MOVEMENT TO RETURN REMAINS AND ARTIFACTS TO THEIR RIGHTFUL COMMUNITIES WITH THE HOPE OF BRINGING AN END TO THE LONG HISTORY OF MALPRACTICE IN MUSEUMS.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT SIGNED UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

AND YOU FOR WATCHING AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.