AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Heavy fighting continues in Gaza, including around a major hospital, as the death toll rises and hostage negotiations continue.

AMNA NAWAZ: A major shakeup of leadership at a leading artificial intelligence company raises questions about the future of the technology.

GEOFF BENNETT: And nurses contend with the major strain on patients with limited English proficiency.

ALLISON SQUIRES, NYU Rory Meyers College of Nursing: Any time you have a harmful event happen to you in the hospital, those harmful events, the risk for people with limited English proficiency can be 15 percent to 25 percent higher than people who speak English.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

Israel's offensive in Gaza continues tonight, focused in the north, where fighting in Gaza remains around hospitals there.

Civilians, meantime, are caught between the Israel Defense Forces and Hamas' determination to hide among them.

AMNA NAWAZ: The government media office today in Gaza, run by Hamas, said today that the fighting has killed more than 13,000 civilians since the October 7 terror attacks by Hamas against Israel; 1,200 Israeli civilians were killed that day.

Nearly 240 hostages taken from Israel are being held by militants in Gaza.

Nick Schifrin reports.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Once again, a Gaza hospital is a battleground.

Tanks line the perimeter of the Indonesian Hospital in Northern Gaza.

Israel says Hamas gunmen were using the hospital as cover.

Inside, last week, injured children lined the hallways.

The WHO says as many as 700 people needed the hospital for treatment or shelter.

Today, the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health denied its fighters use hospitals.

ASHRAF AL-QUDRA, Spokesperson, Palestinian Ministry of Health (through translator): The occupation has now put the Indonesian Hospital in the circle of death.

The hospital has been completely surrounded and sieged.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The hospital is in Northern Gaza, where Israel has asked all residents to leave, and where American researchers found Israel's air campaign, has damaged or destroyed roughly 50 percent of all housing units.

Now Israeli officials are urging Gazans to flee to an even smaller location in the south, Al-Mawasi, roughly the size of Los Angeles' LAX Airport.

Israel continues to launch airstrikes in the south, ahead of an expected ground invasion, that yesterday Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer said needed to be well-planned.

JON FINER, U.S.

Principal Deputy National Security Adviser: We think that their operations should not go forward until those people, those additional civilians have been accounted for in their military planning.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S. has also been pushing for more aid to arrive into Southern Gaza.

Today, a Jordanian field hospital passed through the Rafah Crossing.

This weekend, the most significant delivery of fuel also crossed the border.

Desperate for assistance, Gazans welcomed the help and appealed for more.

MOHAMAD ZOROUB, Gaza Strip Resident (through translator): We are so thankful.

I hope all Arabs come together and stand with us, like the people of Jordan did today.

And I beg for all Arabs to unite, stand with us, and help us to end the siege and the war here.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But Israel vows to pursue its siege until Hamas is destroyed, even underneath Gaza's largest hospital.

Yesterday, the Israeli military released this video showing what it called a Hamas tunnel, with its own electricity and ventilation, and protected by a blast-proof door and photos of Hamas fighters on October 7, holding hostages kidnapped from Israel walking through Shifa's hallways.

But when Israel raided the hospital, there were still patients inside, including the most vulnerable.

Today, those premature babies arrived in Egypt, the blameless caught in the crossfire loaded one by one into mobile incubators.

Lobna Al-Saik had to choose between evacuating with her youngest daughter or staying with her older children.

LOBNA AL-SAIK, Mother of Premature Baby (through translator): They are innocent children, premature babies, not to mention toddlers, 3 years old or 5 years old.

I left my three children in Gaza.

I didn't even get a chance to hug them, because I couldn't leave my daughter in this state.

JOHN KIRBY, NSC Coordinator For Strategic Communications: Especially, we want to see the children and women get released.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The most vulnerable Hamas hostages are the focus of ongoing intense diplomacy between the U.S., Qatar and Israel.

Hamas would release dozens of hostages kidnapped on October the 7th in exchange for increased humanitarian aid and the release of Palestinians held in Israeli detention.

Today, the Israeli government held a tense meeting with hostage family members.

Other families met with the Israeli war cabinet.

Meirav Leshem Gonen's daughter was kidnapped from the music festival.

MEIRAV LESHEM GONEN, Mother of Hostage: Any move they are doing will not take any responsibility from them to return all the hostages back alive here to us, to our arms.

It's my Romi.

It's Shai Wenkert's son... MAN: Son Omer.

MEIRAV LESHEM GONEN: ... and all the other hostages.

NICK SCHIFRIN: It's just one part of a traumatized Israeli society that today continues to bury its dead; 388 soldiers have died since October the 7th, the most in 20 years.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made a surprise visit to Ukraine today, in a bid to keep money and weapons flowing to its military.

Ukrainian officials say they fear foreign aid will dry up as the Israel-Hamas war diverts global attention.

Austin's arrival marked his first to Kyiv since April last year.

He pledged to President Zelenskyy that American support will not waver.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. Secretary of Defense: I wanted to reassure the leadership that the United States of America will continue to support Ukraine.

And so we talked about the things that we're going to continue to do to make sure they have what they need to be successful on the battlefield.

GEOFF BENNETT: Austin also announced another $100 million in U.S. military aid for Ukraine, including air defense interceptors and anti-tank weapons.

A federal appeals court ruling today could curb enforcement of the federal Voting Rights Act.

The St. Louis panel upheld a lower court finding that only the U.S. Justice Department may sue under the landmark law.

For decades, most cases, from redistricting to voter I.D., have been filed by private groups.

The case is expected to wind up before the Supreme Court.

President Biden turned 81 today, at a time when his age has become a growing issue in polls as he faces reelection.

He joked about it during an annual Thanksgiving event, but otherwise left it to top aides to argue that his decades of experience are a positive.

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, White House Press Secretary: As they say, the proof is in the pudding, right?

The president has used his experience to pass more bipartisan legislation in recent time than any other president.

That's just a fact.

I would put the president's stamina, the president's wisdom, ability to get this done on behalf of the American people against anyone, anyone on any day of the week.

GEOFF BENNETT: Mr. Biden is the oldest sitting president in U.S. history.

His leading Republican challenger, former President Donald Trump, is now 77.

Lawyers for Mr. Trump urged a federal appeals court today to revoke a gag order against him.

It bars statements against prosecutors, witnesses, and court staff in his election interference case in Washington.

He says it's about free speech.

Prosecutors say it's about intimidation.

The Commission on Presidential Debates has announced three face-offs for next fall's general election campaign.

They will be at Texas State University, Virginia State University, and the University of Utah.

President Biden has not said if he will debate.

The chair of the Republican National Committee says the commission is biased, so the GOP should boycott the events.

Commuters in Los Angeles finally have some good news.

A mile-long stretch of Interstate 10 reopened today, well ahead of schedule.

It had been damaged 10 days ago by an arson fire fueled by material stored beneath the elevated freeway.

Officials had initially said the repairs would take three to five weeks.

And on Wall Street, the holiday week got off to a good start.

The Dow Jones industrial average gained 203 points to close at 35151.

The Nasdaq rose 159 points.

The S&P 500 added 33.

And still to come on the "NewsHour": Argentina elects a far right political outsider as president, raising questions about South America's second largest economy; the world reacts to the passing of former first lady and global humanitarian Rosalynn Carter; and Tamara Keith and Susan Page break down the latest political headlines.

It's a major corporate shakeup in the world of artificial intelligence.

Microsoft announced today that it has hired Sam Altman, the co-founder of ChatGPT maker OpenAI, after he was unexpectedly fired from that company days earlier.

Microsoft is a financial partner in OpenAI.

Altman had kicked off a global race for artificial intelligence supremacy, and was the face of the A.I.

boom, often drawing comparisons to tech giants like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.

Mike Isaac is covering all of this for The New York Times and joins us now.

So, Mike, as best I can piece together from your great reporting and a couple of conversations I had with tech industry watchers, the OpenAI board, which is influenced by the interests of scientists, was worried that the company's expansion was out of control, might even call a dangerous.

And Sam Altman was arguing that he was trying to grow the business out of a necessity.

Do I have that right?

Fill in the blanks.

What ultimately led to his ouster?

MIKE ISAAC, The New York Times: Yes, you're totally right.

There's a -- part of the fascinating dynamics of this company is that it's a very small board with very ideologically driven directors on that board.

And one of the big concerns from them is that A.I.

is going to spin out of control and ultimately be a destroying force for humanity.

And it sounds like "Terminator," but it is actually something that these people think about and talk about a lot of the time.

Sam Altman's point of view has essentially been, we need to speed up our tech development of our artificial intelligence as a way to better humanity, to offer people different services in developing countries that they may not have had if we didn't have the robots to sort of give it to them.

And so it's been kind of a battle of safety versus accelerationism of the tech.

And, at least on Friday, the Sam side that is pushing for more aggressive development lost.

And now we're seeing a real drawn-out battle as to whether he can make it back to the company, basically.

GEOFF BENNETT: So a breakup between a founder and his or her board is nothing new in Silicon Valley.

It's a tale as old as time.

Help our audience understand what made Sam Altman's ouster so stunning.

MIKE ISAAC: Sam Altman basically became this sort of poster child for the development of A.I.

A.I.

has been in the works for decades.

It's not exactly a new computer science.

But with the release of ChatGPT, this really consumer-facing what's called generative A.I.

product, where computers can sort of predict what to respond and give you different answers in ways that historically computer systems aren't really able to do, it created a real rush in the industry to build these technologies from Apple to Meta to Microsoft to Google.

And Sam became the kind of leader of the whole movement.

And OpenAI, to his credit, he wasn't just sort of all flash.

They actually have very strong, deep technology.

And, ultimately, all the employees at the company believed in him, which is why it was such a shock and really damaging for the company when the board fired him.

GEOFF BENNETT: That's right.

And this is the latest twist in all of this.

You have more than 700 employees at OpenAI, a company that employs 770 people, they're now threatening to quit and join Microsoft.

And Sam Altman, now with a major title, lots of influence at this company, he's in the position to hire them?

MIKE ISAAC: That's exactly right.

I mean, OpenAI is big for a start-up, but still a pretty small company.

And if 90 percent, effectively, of your staff goes, this company could go from approximately $80 billion valuation to zero in just a few days, which means investors will be losing out on all their investment.

Employees -- people I know -- I'm talking to employees who are on the way there, don't know if they're going to have a job.

And Microsoft could end up ultimately having a coup here and gaining all of their employees and technology for not actually having to buy the company outright, which is really unprecedented in a lot of ways in the tech landscape.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, in the meantime, what is the impact on the development of generative A.I.?

MIKE ISAAC: Yes, it's a great question.

I do think that one thing that Microsoft and Sam have in their back pocket is, they're taking the best, most talented engineers and computer scientists at the top of the company with them and the -- essentially the intellectual property and what's called I.P.

behind it.

So they could kind of pick up where they left off at Microsoft, which it would still take some sort of time to spin things up.

And, like, the destruction of OpenAI means building a whole lot of new things at Microsoft.

But I think this is only a speed bump for them.

I also think it's going to spur all sorts of bursts of competition at other companies, like Meta, Google, other folks who felt behind OpenAI, but now are feeling a second wind, based at least on some of the conversations that I have had with them.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we will be watching.

Mike Isaac of The New York Times, thanks so much.

MIKE ISAAC: Thanks, Geoff.

Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: Argentineans went to the polls yesterday amid economic crisis, soaring inflation, and growing poverty and as many nations have in the last decade, including the U.S., they elected a populist outsider.

Economist, author, and media commentator Javier Milei can now add another title to his resume, president-elect, thanks to an exhausted and angry electorate.

Argentinean president-elect Javier Milei celebrated his election win amidst a euphoric crowd.

JAVIER MILEI, Argentinean President-Elect (through translator): Today, we turn the page on our history and we return to the path that we should never have lost.

AMNA NAWAZ: Promising a new political era.

JAVIER MILEI (through translator): Stop this impoverishing model of the caste.

Today, we embrace the libertarian model, so as to return to being a global power.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) AMNA NAWAZ: Supporters filled the streets of Buenos Aires last night, hoping Milei's election means an end to decades of economic crises.

RUBEN VARGAS, Javier Milei Supporter (through translator): I think, this time Argentina needed a change, and that's why I bet on this new proposal.

AMNA NAWAZ: Milei won with some 56 percent of the vote, defeating establishment candidate Sergio Massa, who oversaw the nation's slide into triple-digit inflation as economy minister for the ruling Peronist party.

Massa was leading after the first round of voting in October, but last night conceded the race before results were even released.

SERGIO MASSA, Argentinean Presidential Candidate (through translator): Obviously, the results are not what we expected.

And I have communicated with Javier Milei to congratulate him and wish him luck, because he is the president that most Argentines elected for the next four years.

AMNA NAWAZ: An economist and former TV pundit, Milei has drawn comparisons to Donald Trump.

And his rise to power has been swift.

He was elected to Congress in 2021, promising to - - quote -- "blow up the system."

A self-described anarcho-capitalist, he's pledged to shut down Argentina's Central Bank, adopt the U.S. dollar as national currency, and make deep economic cuts, policies he sold on the campaign trail by brandishing a chain saw and demolishing a Central Bank-themed pinata.

Milei also opposes abortion rights, wants to end the Ministry of Women, Gender and Diversity, and to loosen gun restrictions.

He also famously has four cloned dogs created in a New York lab whom he thanked when he won the August primary.

JAVIER MILEI (through translator): I want to thank the four-legged children, Murray, Milton, Robert, and Lucas.

AMNA NAWAZ: A novice politician who's already grasped one of the profession's oldest rules: If you want a friend in politics, get a dog, or four.

For more on what Milei's win means for Argentina and beyond, we are joined by Oliver Stuenkel.

He teaches international relations in Brazil and is a nonresident fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Oliver, welcome.

So why did Milei's message resonate with voters in Argentina so strongly right now?

OLIVER STUENKEL, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: Hi, .

So I think that Milei's victory is not altogether surprising, because neither the center-right government of Macri between 2015 and '19, nor the center-left government of Alberto Fernandez in the -- over the past four years have managed to stabilize Argentina's economy.

And, as a consequence, I think there was a sense that any change, even by a candidate who has proposed lots of radical ideas, many of which I think some of his voters don't even support, was seen as the best idea.

This was a change election, a growing consensus that things cannot remain as they are.

And the big question, of course, is whether Milei will govern now as the radical that he was during the first part of this electoral campaign, or the more moderate candidate that he projected himself to be during the run-off, when he tried to attract centrist voters, which he achieved, as the results on Sunday show.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, he steps into power pretty soon, right, on December 10, so we should get some answers fairly quickly.

But what do you expect to happen?

He has proposed, as you said, some radical ideas, getting rid of entire government agencies altogether, pegging the currency to -- or, rather, changing the currency to the U.S. dollar.

Do you expect him to see those through right away?

OLIVER STUENKEL: I think that will be very difficult, because Milei doesn't have a majority in Congress.

He doesn't have a large party.

He doesn't have any of the powerful political groups behind him, like Bolsonaro, for example, who had the armed forces behind him.

So he will have to articulate some broad consensus involving more moderate lawmakers, the former president, Macri, and the defeated candidate, Bullrich, who is a traditional conservative, supported him in the run-off in an attempt to moderate him.

So the dynamic we will see now is one between Milei's supporters of the first hour, who actually want to do away with old politics, who believe his rhetoric about destroying the political elite.

But on the other hand, you have technocrats and more moderates, who Milei will need to govern.

He won't be able to pass a single law without the support of established figures.

He won't be able to govern without appointing bureaucrats who don't really share his ideas.

Those are the very people he has criticized and attacked during the campaign as the deep state, and now will have to -- he will have to work with them.

So I think it will be very unlikely that he will be able to govern as a radical.

However, he could try plebiscites and govern by decree, but that usually doesn't end well in Argentine politics.

Also important to remember that most presidents who don't have a majority in Congress struggle to get things done, and many of them don't even finish their time in office.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the minute-and-a-half or so I have left, I have to ask.

Milei is close to the former far right Brazilian leader Jair Bolsonaro.

He's also a supporter of former U.S. President Donald Trump.

What does Milei's election mean for the relationship between Argentina and the U.S., led by President Biden, who has warned consistently about the rise of far right authoritarian leaders?

OLIVER STUENKEL: Well, it certainly poses an obstacle, because Milei, as you say, is a Trump fan.

He's a Bolsonaro fan.

So I don't think that Milei will be on talking terms to Brazil's President Lula.

And that, of course, is a problem, because the two should be talking.

Those are the two major economies of South America.

They have got lots of issues to deal with.

But in the past, between Bolsonaro, who is far right and left-wing President Fernandez, the two were already estranged.

I think we will see perhaps the bureaucrats talking, while the presidents don't really speak.

Now, for the United States, I think it will be necessary to somehow engage the Milei government, because there's also lots of issues the two will have to discuss.

And I think, potentially, U.S. pressure on Milei to, for example, respect basic rights and to not threaten Argentine democracy, are certainly issues that will be discussed in the bilateral relationship between Argentina and the United States.

AMNA NAWAZ: Issues we will be following.

That is Oliver Stuenkel, nonresident fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, joining us tonight.

Thank you for your time.

OLIVER STUENKEL: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Among the many challenges facing the country's health care system, language barriers, when patients and providers speak different languages.

In collaboration with the Global Health Reporting Center and with support from the Pulitzer Center, William Brangham looks at how nurses are meeting the moment.

It's part of a series Critical Care: The Future of Nursing.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Julio Oreana (ph) speaks no English and received medication from a pharmacist who spoke no Spanish.

He did not know what the medication was for, and so he had not taken any.

CRISTINA MELGAR, Nurse, La Clinica Del Pueblo (through translator): OK. Let me see the pills that you have.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Nurse Cristina Melgar tells him how to take it and offers a little encouragement.

CRISTINA MELGAR (through translator): Of course, if you have any problems, you know you can come here.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Melgar says, in addition to providing medical care, traversing these language barriers is a crucial part of her job.

CRISTINA MELGAR: So, the system for rife with patients who are not fluent in English.

They feel neglected.

They feel not treated with respect sometimes.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Melissa Marinelarena oversees the nurses here at La Clinica Del Pueblo, the Clinic of the People, in Washington, D.C.

Most of the staff speak fluent Spanish, something she says is a critical part of delivering top-shelf care.

MELISSA MARINELARENA, La Clinica Del Pueblo: There is literature out there and that backs up the fact that patients want to be taken care of by providers that look like them, that speak the same language as them, and by providers that sound like them.

And, unfortunately, right now, there's not enough of us out there.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Most clinics and hospitals are legally required to provide interpretive services, based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the rule was strengthened in the Affordable Care Act.

While communication is just one of many factors that affect the quality of care, studies show that language gaps on their own can lead to worse outcomes.

ALLISON SQUIRES, NYU Rory Meyers College of Nursing: Any time you have a harmful event happen to you in the hospital, those harmful events, the risk for people with limited English proficiency can be 15 percent to 25 percent higher than people who speak English.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Allison Squires is a professor of nursing at New York University.

She studies what happens to patients who don't share the same language as their providers.

ALLISON SQUIRES: So they are at higher risk for experiencing harm during a hospitalization.

They are less likely to get timely access to primary care.

They also are more likely to have a longer length of stay.

So all of these things actually add up in terms of overall health care costs to the patient, to health systems, to insurance companies, everything.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Squires published a study of more than 90,000 patients who were released from hospitals with follow-up care back home.

She found those with limited English were more likely to end up back in the hospital, only 1 percent, but still.

ALLISON SQUIRES: I know 1 percent doesn't sound like a lot in terms of an increased risk, but that 1 percent can compound into millions of dollars, especially if you're serving a lot of patients over time.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The Hispanic population is growing three times faster than the U.S. population as a whole.

About 14 percent of the U.S. population speak Spanish at home, and yet only 6 percent of working nurses are Hispanic.

MELISSA MARINELARENA: It's all very different.

And understanding, yes, the different dialects in Spanish, the different accents in Spanish is very different as well.

What we are doing here at La Clinica is just a drop in the bucket.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The challenge isn't limited to just Spanish.

About one in 12 Americans speaks limited or no English.

Three in five are Spanish speakers.

The rest speak Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Arabic, and other languages.

At the Cizik School of Nursing at UTHealth Houston, they are making it a priority to build a work force that better matches the patient population.

Erica Yu is a professor and associate dean.

ERICA YU, Cizik School of Nursing, UTHealth Houston: Forty-seven percent of our undergraduate nursing students are underrepresented minority.

And our total student percentage is 46 percent of our total students -- that means including graduate students -- are an underrepresented minority.

And 35 percent of our students are Hispanic, which is very different from the national picture.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Professor Elda Ramirez, who is also a nurse, saw in the E.R.

at another facility an awful example of what can happen when patients cannot be fully understood.

ELDA RAMIREZ, Cizik School of Nursing, UTHealth Houston: I kept seeing this young woman, and I could see that she was curled up in a chair and she was holding her face.

And I saw in the chart that she had facial trauma.

And I thought, oh, well they're surely getting some imaging or whatever.

And I looked at the chart, and there was no imaging ordered.

So I went up to her.

And when I actually went up to her and said (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) and she immediately says (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

She had chemicals that had splashed in her eyes.

And, somehow, in the translation that had taken place at triage, that had been completely missed.

I'm like, ooh.

And then we were able to move forward.

Luckily, she was OK, and we were able to take care of that.

But that moment of time where that was missed in translation, that was huge.

It was huge.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: When there's no nurse or doctor who speaks a patient's language, the job falls to translators, like here with this patient who's recovering from a stroke in the ICU at Houston Methodist Hospital.

Erin Mulpur oversees translation services at Houston Methodist.

She says it's more than just language fluency.

Translators also need some medical fluency.

ERIN MULPUR, Houston Methodist Hospital: They have to be certified so there is medical.

So, there is medical terminology certification that goes along with that to make sure that patients are receiving accurate language interpretation.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So that if I say insulin or I say mastectomy or all the terminology is... ERIN MULPUR: Right.

Right.

Right.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The hospital has in-person translators who speak Spanish, Mandarin and Arabic.

ERIN MULPUR: We also provide video remote interpretation.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So that person who might be doing the translation could be anywhere, basically, someone you have contracted with.

ERIN MULPUR: Mm-hmm.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: But even though technology helps, it raises new hurdles and new questions.

What if a patient just wants to go to the bathroom or to call a family member?

ALLISON SQUIRES: Do you call an interpreter every time someone needs to communicate that type of need?

How can we effectively address those types of situations?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Nurses say literal translation is not the only goal.

ERICA YU: And, sometimes, especially with the aging population, that they may not be able to trust nurses when you don't understand their culture.

So, I think language, a lot of times, comes with the culture.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Back at La Clinica, Melissa Marinelarena says there's no real substitute for a direct personal connection.

What do you say to the devil's advocate who would just say, ah, Google Translate does all this for you?

MELISSA MARINELARENA: Google translates, but it doesn't interpret.

Those are two very different things.

There's nuances to when somebody says something, when they speak.

It's understanding how someone grew up.

And, again, it's more than what somebody is saying.

And I think it's hard.

You can't teach somebody to be called bicultural, right?

Like, that's how you grow up.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And you really do think that matters in the end.

MELISSA MARINELARENA: I do.

I think it makes a big difference.

MAN: She's going to help me understand you better.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: There isn't good research comparing outcomes with in-person native speakers versus translators, but there's no question patients appreciate talking to someone who truly understands them.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm William Brangham in Washington, D.C. GEOFF BENNETT: Global humanitarian, mental health advocate, and champion for equal rights, these are some of the ways that former first lady Rosalynn Carter is being remembered tonight.

She passed away yesterday at the age of 96.

Mrs. Carter died surrounded by family in her hometown of Plains, Georgia.

That's the small Southern city that became a household name after her husband, Jimmy Carter, was elected president back in 1977.

Former President Carter released a statement following his wife's passing, which reads: "Rosalynn was my equal partner in everything I ever accomplished.

She gave me wise guidance and encouragement when I needed it.

As long as Rosalynn was in the world, I always knew somebody loved and supported me."

As we focus on Mrs. Carter's legacy and many contributions, we turn to our own Judy Woodruff, who covered the Carter White House and knew Mrs. Carter well, and journalist and historian Jonathan Alter, whose biography of President Carter is "His Very Best: Jimmy Carter, a Life."

Thank you both for being here.

Judy, your connection to the Carter's goes back to 1970, is that right, when Jimmy Carter was then running for governor of Georgia.

And Mrs. Carter often spoke of her passion for politics and campaigning.

Was that a passion she had back then or one that she developed?

JUDY WOODRUFF: It definitely was not one she had back then.

I mean, I did not cover his race for the Georgia Senate in 1962 or his first race for governor in 1966, when she wrote about having just being -- being wracked with fear when she would have to go out and make a speech in his behalf.

But by the time I covered that campaign -- and, again, it was my first year as a reporter.

I was learning the ropes very much myself.

She was getting more comfortable.

And by the time she was out in the arena and making speeches for him, it became something that she did very well.

She knew her stuff.

When people would ask detailed questions about issues, she would be able to answer it, whether it was agriculture policy or economics.

She would try to answer.

And if she didn't know something, she would say, "I will get back to you on that."

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Jonathan, on that point, I know you say that Mrs. Carter's political instincts actually surpassed those of her husband.

In what ways?

JONATHAN ALTER, Author, "His Very Best: Jimmy Carter, a Life": Well, I think even Jimmy Carter acknowledged that she was just shrewder in the way she read people and political situations.

And she was always trying to steer him out of political trouble, with mixed levels of success.

She urged him to delay certain controversial decisions he made as president until a second term.

And when he said, "I don't want to do the politically expedient thing, I will do that in a second term," she would say, "Well, there might not be a second term."

And there wasn't.

So -- but what I think what is not recognized among a lot of people who assume that their accomplishments were only in the post-presidency is that they got major things done together when he was president on mental health, on ending or curtailing discrimination by age.

And she got rid of a lot of mandatory retirement provisions that were in the federal code.

And one that stands out for me that she accomplished that almost nobody remembers is that, when she was first lady, she and Betty Bumpers, the wife of Senator Dale Bumpers, they convinced 33 state legislatures to require vaccination before children could enter school.

This had a huge impact on the public health of the United States, and yet it's almost a footnote.

So, what I'm hoping is that her death will kick off a new appreciation of her in the first rank of American first ladies.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Judy, the statement that President Carter released after his wife's passing, that she was an equal partner in everything he ever accomplished, how did that partnership affect President Carter's political world view and his policies?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, it was one that started early.

She was -- I think she was a teenager when she met him.

She was 19 when they married.

They were -- as you say, they were a duo.

They were -- they were partners in every sense of the word.

He checked everything with her I mean, he -- there were no big decisions that were made, any decisions, for that matter.

It doesn't mean he always went along with her, though.

As you just heard from Jonathan, she would advise him to do something that she thought was in his better political interest, and he didn't always follow it.

But it -- it became -- it was -- later on, it was Bill and Hillary Clinton who -- there was the saying you get two for the price of one or whatever the saying was.

That was truly the case with the Carters.

She was equally invested and working hard every day all day long during his presidency.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan, you wrote an op-ed in today's New York Times in which you write this: "Perhaps, in death, Mrs. Carter's role as this country's premier champion of mental health will finally be properly appreciated.

It's only one of the many unheralded accomplishments of a formidable and gracious woman who belongs in the first rank of influential first ladies."

Tell us more about that.

JONATHAN ALTER: So, just on mental health, you may recall reading or experiencing that Ted Kennedy ran against Jimmy Carter in 1980 for the Democratic nomination.

It was very harmful to Carter's efforts to beat Ronald Reagan, which he did not do.

But, after that point, Rosalynn Carter worked with Ted Kennedy to get the first major piece of mental health legislation of mental health legislation through the Congress in 1980.

Now, Ronald Reagan, to her anger, repealed a lot of that.

And many of the provisions were not actually implemented until Obamacare.

But she did more than anyone to end the stigma that applied to mental illness in this country.

And she also, in the post-presidency, championed caregivers.

That wasn't even a concept in the '60s and '70s.

Rosalynn Carter helped put that on the map as an idea, that people care for friends and relatives in this country in great numbers.

So, she combined this toughness and this strength with tremendous grace.

And I interviewed more than 250 people from my book, including every member of the Carter family.

And I didn't get a single person who said anything critical about Rosalynn Carter.

Some of them had some critical things to say about Jimmy Carter.

But she was such a formidable, impressive, kind, and just wonderful person in almost every dimension that I hope her memory of her contributions will inspire people in the years ahead.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Judy, you interviewed the Carters when they marked 75 years of marriage, and you asked them both, when they think about this country's future, are they more fearful or more hopeful?

And here's how Mrs. Carter answered that question.

ROSALYNN CARTER, Former First Lady: I think you have to have hope.

Sometimes, it's hard, with the issues and the things that are on the news all the time, to try to figure out what's really -- what really to believe.

But, in the end, I think everything will be OK. GEOFF BENNETT: Her ability to find hope in places where others may not, it really speaks to her abiding faith, her profound decency, and a certain grace.

How do you see it?

JUDY WOODRUFF: And compassion, and, again, what you just heard from Jon Alter about the issues, the causes that she adopted.

And she embraced them in the White House, but she continued to embrace them.

She didn't just give up.

They have been out of the White House for 43 years.

It's hard to imagine that.

And they have been active ever since, up until the point when they're -- because of their age, they weren't able to do that.

I would just add that there very much was a toughness to her, a steeliness.

People throw around the term steel magnolia.

She would do her homework, and she would come to a conclusion about what needed to be done, so often driven by compassion for people who weren't getting their due.

She worked on women's issues.

As Jon said, she worked on -- certainly on mental illness, on caregiving.

This became a passion of hers.

And I think what she said about hope, you're right.

I mean, she believed that -- and you heard it there -- you have to have that positive attitude, or else you're not going to get through there.

There's all -- there are always going to be obstacles facing you.

You have to keep moving forward.

GEOFF BENNETT: Hers was a remarkable and consequential life.

Jonathan Alter and Judy Woodruff, thank you both so much.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: The nation mourns a trailblazing first lady, and a Band-Aid budget won't heal the nation's divides or congressional dysfunction in the election year to come.

We will break that down in today's Politics Monday with USA Today's Susan Page and Tamara Keith of NPR.

Amy Walter is away.

And good to see you both here.

Susan, before we move deeper into politics, you have covered Rosalynn Carter before.

You were with her on a 1979 trip to Thailand when she was meeting with refugees?

As we're remembering her life and legacy, what stays with you?

SUSAN PAGE, Washington Bureau Chief, USA Today: She was a serious person.

She took and defined a more serious role for the first lady than most of her predecessors.

And on that trip to Thailand, she went to these desperate -- these desperate refugee camps with Cambodians.

I remember she picked up a child, cradled the child, talked to the mother.

That picture went around the globe.

It shone a spotlight on the plight of these refugees.

And she said to this -- to the refugees: "I'm going to go home and tell my husband about you."

And I guarantee you that she did that because she weighed in on the most serious policy matters with her husband.

They had not only the longest White House marriage in our history.

They had one of the closest partnerships in the White House that we have ever seen.

AMNA NAWAZ: Such a remarkable life.

Well, in the meantime, back here on Washington, on the front here, it's a good time to do kind of a temperature check, Tam, so, on both the presidential race and Capitol Hill.

Congress did avoid a government shutdown, but there's another potential one looming in mid-January.

Will that grace period that the far right Republicans extended to Speaker Mike Johnson be extended much further?

TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Yes, Congress has found a way to do the bare minimum and make it look really hard.

(LAUGHTER) TAMARA KEITH: And Mike Johnson did get a grace period.

Now, some of the far right Republicans are already saying he has one or two strikes because of this legislation that did the bare minimum, which is fund the government for a little while.

The question is whether that grace period will continue.

But the reality is that there's not a great alternative.

He got the job after a three-week back-and-forth with everybody looking around trying to find someone to do it.

And so it's likely he gets a little bit more of a grace period because also it's going to be the height of primaries and caucuses and primaries for all of these members of Congress who are also going to be on the ballot.

And it's -- once the funding runs out again in January and February, it's an election year.

We're going to be in an election year.

And so it's most likely that they are going to find some sort of a way, probably with some drama to get there, to just keep the government funded a bit.

AMNA NAWAZ: What's your take on this, Susan?

SUSAN PAGE: That's really optimistic.

(LAUGHTER) SUSAN PAGE: Because there's been no demonstration of a willingness to put we need to govern, it's an election year ahead of, let's blow things up.

I mean, it's not a lot of members of Congress, but when you have the kind of narrow margin that Speaker Johnson has, it only takes a couple people, as we have seen, to upend everything.

If he manages to do that, if we get through the January and February deadlines for funding the government and he has put together a plan, then he deserves some real credit for doing something that his Republican predecessors have had a lot of trouble doing.

TAMARA KEITH: Well, and the thing is, there isn't as much personal animus towards him, in part because they don't know him that well.

But that -- the honeymoon could eventually run out, or they could just decide, all right, fine, every single government funding bill requires Democratic votes because it's divided government.

He gives the far right Republicans the permission to slip to vote no, as they have always wanted to, and then you just sort of limp along.

We will see.

AMNA NAWAZ: Let's take a look, meanwhile, at the presidential race.

As you mentioned, the calendar does start to get busy and crowded in the new year.

There is some recent polling I wanted to put to you, this from Harvard/Harris poll conducted just last week.

It shows Americans aren't really happy with President Biden on some of the issues they say are most important to them.

Here's his -- some of his lowest approval ratings are on those same issues, 39 percent for immigration, 40 percent for inflation, 42 percent on crime and violence, and 44 percent approval on the economy.

Tam, what's the White House saying about this?

TAMARA KEITH: The White House view, generally, on all of these polls, all of these issue polls is simply that this reflects his broader approval rating, that voters are not talking to pollster and carefully considering their feelings about him on immigration or the economy or any of these things.

Voters are in a sour mood.

And, essentially, all of these issues are basically matching up with his broader approval rating, which isn't great.

But they also take sort of a long view, which is that often presidents at this point in the reelection cycle have really low approval ratings.

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

TAMARA KEITH: And they sort of feel that Joe Biden is always taken for granted.

He's always counted out.

He's always left for dead politically, and then they end up passing the bill or he ends up consolidating support in the Democratic primary.

And so they, at least for now -- this is like people actually employed by the president - - are keeping their powder dry, his inner circle.

AMNA NAWAZ: There is a year to go, Susan.

SUSAN PAGE: People may say these are the issues they care most about, but it doesn't -- there are two issues that have been more powerful than those issues.

One is the issues of abortion ever since Roe v. Wade was overturned.

We have seen that deliver for Democrats in two elections.

The other is the issue of Donald Trump.

And antipathy to Donald Trump has been the best thing that Joe Biden has had going from concern about the future of democracy, about what Donald Trump might do if he got back in office.

So we should be modest about what we learn from polls.

And that includes issue polls, as well as horse race polls.

AMNA NAWAZ: And are you saying, when it becomes a binary choice and the choices become clear, voters see things very differently?

SUSAN PAGE: Is it going to be a binary choice, though?

How big would the ballot be?

How many credible, credible, in that they will have some money and they will have some -- get some attention?

Other candidates will be on the ballot.

That could make the math of the election entirely different.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, in the meantime, we have a couple minutes left, and I never get to talk to you guys about these kinds of things, but it is Thanksgiving week, and we are so grateful for you both and your insights.

So I'd love to give you a moment just to share what you're grateful for, when a lot of what we report on is not necessarily celebratory.

Susan, why don't you kick us off?

SUSAN PAGE: I'm, of course, grateful for my family.

But what I'd like to say I'm grateful for tonight are the journalists who put themselves in harm's way to cover the news that they bring to them.

I'm thinking of the Israel-Hamas battle.

The war there has already killed 48 journalists.

The Ukraine war has killed 15 journalists.

This is a time when trust in the news media has eroded, when people in this town jeer at journalists all the time.

These are reporters doing their jobs, and we are all the better off because of that.

AMNA NAWAZ: Thank you for that.

Tam, what about you?

TAMARA KEITH: Well, I am thankful for "PBS NewsHour" viewers like you.

(LAUGHTER) TAMARA KEITH: And what I will say is that, over the past year, I have heard from so many people who love Politics Monday, people who sought me out in places I was not expecting to find them.

And I am just grateful.

I am grateful for all of those conversations that I got to have over e-mail and over social media and in person, even with people who do not like my hair.

(LAUGHTER) TAMARA KEITH: Even those conversations, I am grateful for them too.

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me just reiterate how grateful we are for both of you, for the insights you always bring, Susan, you as a guest, you as a regular on Politics Monday.

And we will look forward to talking again soon.

Susan Page and Tamara Keith, thank you to you both.

TAMARA KEITH: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: One thing Americans can be thankful for, as inflation cools, so are the prices of Thanksgiving turkeys.

Turkey prices are down 5.6 percent since last year.

That's according to the American Farm Bureau Federation.

But two special turkeys will be spared from the dinner table this week as part of a treasured White House tradition.

Laura Barron-Lopez has more.

JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: I hereby pardon Liberty and Bell.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The two birds, Liberty and Bell, were raised in Minnesota, the nation's largest producer of turkey.

JOE BIDEN: They love honeycrisp apples.

Not bad, huh?

(APPLAUSE) JOE BIDEN: Ice hockey.

I sure as hell would like to see them play ice hockey -- 1,000 lakes and the Mall of America.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The president, on his 81st birthday, also made a few dad jokes.

JOE BIDEN: I just want you to know it's difficult turning 60.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: For more than three decades, turkeys have gobbled up attention at the White House, rather than the dinner table.

But how it got started?

Well, that debate has ruffled some feathers.

BILL CLINTON, Former President of the United States: President Truman was the first president to pardon a turkey.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Actually, Truman was the first president to receive a turkey from the National Turkey Federation, but there's no record of a pardon.

According to the White House Historical Association, Truman said that the birds would, come in handy for Christmas dinner.

So, who was the first president to pardon a turkey?

Technically, it was Honest Abe Lincoln, after his young son Tad begged to save the life of a bird originally destined to become Christmas dinner.

Jack the turkey instead became a White House pet.

President John F. Kennedy was the first to spare a Thanksgiving gobbler.

In 1963, despite a sign hanging around the turkey's neck that read, "Good eating, Mr. President," Kennedy sent them back to the farm.

And a year before Richard Nixon received a pardon of his own, his daughter chose to gift his turkey to a local petting zoo.

It was Ronald Reagan who carved out a spot in history as the first to use the word pardon when talking turkey in 1987.

The tradition became formalized two years later by President George H.W.

Bush.

GEORGE H.W.

BUSH, Former President of the United States: Let me assure you and this fine tom turkey that he will not end up on anyone's dinner table, not this guy.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The event is now an annual White House ritual.

And for the last decade, the turkeys have received a treat that's as sweet as pie, a stay at the 4-star Willard Hotel.

Instead of moving to the dinner table, Liberty and Bell will live out the rest of their lives trotting around the University of Minnesota's campus farm in St. Paul.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Laura Barron-Lopez.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, these two turkeys apparently are going to head to the University of Minnesota College of Food and Agriculture to rest their feathers for a bit.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: I have to tell you, this is one of the favorite pieces we do every year.

It just is.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: Thank you to Laura for that.

GEOFF BENNETT: As always, there's more coverage online, including how official definitions of homelessness often overlook a less visible group also struggling to find permanent housing of their own.

That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

AMNA NAWAZ: And join us again here tomorrow night, when we will have a look at an Icelandic volcano seemingly on the verge of eruption.

And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.